Driver leaves in underwear

[Coldworld]

Originally Posted by Griff
It's just like anything else at UPS, if you display that you're a willing victim -- expect to be victimized every day

That pretty much sums it up in one sentence.

 

[MobileBA]

You can't be be fired for failing to work as directed if you are being directed to break the law, period. There is probably more to the scenerio my guess the supervisor is just under alot of pressure and he just blew it.

 

[Jones]

I didnt think "work as directed" was a cardinal sin?

Refusal to work as directed is gross insubordination and an automatic article 50 termination (Atlantic Area). But you still need a shop steward present for the official hanging.

 

[Coldworld]

Failure to work as directed may not but be insubordination is. The 2 are so closely related that they can claim one is the same as the other.

Just like ANYTHING can be hooked to stealing from the company, oh the different ways Ive heard this one ABUSED over the years. This is one that I would like to see changed for the better in future contracts. Its really one of the only things the company has so they spin it to the hilt.

 

[dilligaf]

Just like ANYTHING can be hooked to stealing from the company, oh the different ways Ive heard this one ABUSED over the years. This is one that I would like to see changed for the better in future contracts. Its really one of the only things the company has so they spin it to the hilt.

Very true!

 

[BrownSuit]

I call BS. The company can't "fire you on the spot", even for a cardinal sin. A shop steward has to be present. And at least in my building, the DM wants to know about it before the center manager whacks somebody.

This is very true, but only if he follows the proper steps. An OCS does not have the authority to fire somebody and I seriously doubt that the center manager would have been doing a production ride.

Can they now get him for job abandonment?

Only if they can prove that he did not realize that the OCS or whomever was doing the ride did not have the authority to fire him.

Failure to work as directed may not be but insubordination is. The 2 are so closely related that they can claim one is the same as the other.

Either way, what he was being told to do was illegal. The issue is going to be how the driver responded to being told to do an illegal act.

 

[Coldworld]

This is very true, but only if he follows the proper steps. An OCS does not have the authority to fire somebody and I seriously doubt that the center manager would have been doing a production ride.



Only if they can prove that he did not realize that the OCS or whomever was doing the ride did not have the authority to fire him.



Either way, what he was being told to do was illegal. The issue is going to be how the driver responded to being told to do an illegal act.

brownsuit, play devil advocate for a sec and tell what you would have done in this situation if you were the driver...would you have double parked??

 

[tieguy]

I call BS. The company can't "fire you on the spot", even for a cardinal sin. A shop steward has to be present. And at least in my building, the DM wants to know about it before the center manager whacks somebody.

Refusing to follow a supervisors direct instruction is the one area where you can be fired on the spot. I'm kind of surprised you have not seen it happen before. I've seen about 10 times in my time. I think six or seven stuck.

 

[dilligaf]

This is very true, but only if he follows the proper steps. An OCS does not have the authority to fire somebody and I seriously doubt that the center manager would have been doing a production ride.



Only if they can prove that he did not realize that the OCS or whomever was doing the ride did not have the authority to fire him.

This statement I disagree with. It is not up to us to assume that any particular mgt personel can or can not fire us. I think we have to take it at face value and let the union figure it out.

Either way, what he was being told to do was illegal. The issue is going to be how the driver responded to being told to do an illegal act.

I agree that what he was told to do was illegal. And unsafe as well. We have no way of knowing what the drivers response was. He may very well have said, "(fbomb) you!".

 

[Babagounj]

Having spent many days in SF ( commonly just called " the city " ), I can tell you that finding any open parking spots is extremely rare. Also since most if not all townhouses have built in garages with driveways on some streets there can be no legal spaces anywhere. I hardly ever saw anyone double park, also one did not block any driveways.
I can believe that this driver did in fact leave without his uniform, the stresses we all have to take on a daily basis can cause such an outcome. ( heck I've thought about doing the same for quite some time ).
Plus one has to remember that when it rains in SF most people don't bother to go to work.

 

[mungrin]

I was fired on the spot by a sup twice.First time was for a seatbelt.Car with sups are always driving around lookin for drivers without seatbelts.I didnt know this at the time because i was new.The second time was last year.I got fired because of excessive loss of my id badge.
Both times the union stepped up and got my job back.Thats why a union is so important.Fedex guys probably get fired on the spot no questions asked all the time with no one to defend them.I would love to hear some Fedex firing stories.

 

[tieguy]

I was fired on the spot by a sup twice.First time was for a seatbelt.Car with sups are always driving around lookin for drivers without seatbelts.I didnt know this at the time because i was new.The second time was last year.I got fired because of excessive loss of my id badge.
Both times the union stepped up and got my job back.Thats why a union is so important.Fedex guys probably get fired on the spot no questions asked all the time with no one to defend them.I would love to hear some Fedex firing stories.

Not necessarily. If we knew firing you would result in your leaving permenently then we would fire our peple a lot less. But since you have a union we actually fire you more. We know we will then go through some negotiation process to determine what your actual discipline will be.

The union process gets you more discipline not less.

 

[mungrin]

Not necessarily. If we knew firing you would result in your leaving permenently then we would fire our peple a lot less. But since you have a union we actually fire you more. We know we will then go through some negotiation process to determine what your actual discipline will be.

The union process gets you more discipline not less.

Yeah ive made some stupid mistakes but im much smarter now and learned my lesson.

 

[Coldworld]

I was fired on the spot by a sup twice.First time was for a seatbelt.Car with sups are always driving around lookin for drivers without seatbelts.I didnt know this at the time because i was new.The second time was last year.I got fired because of excessive loss of my id badge.
Both times the union stepped up and got my job back.Thats why a union is so important.Fedex guys probably get fired on the spot no questions asked all the time with no one to defend them.I would love to hear some Fedex firing stories.

There is a big difference between ups and fedex culture. They dont have nearly the drama of ups. I have talked to express on my route and they dont have sups following them around unless theres a theft of parcels or something serious with customers involved. Mrfedex can say anything he wants about fedex being a horrible place to work, and he sounds like a good guy but ups is MANY, MANY times more militant, and micromanaged than fedex. If they go union, will that change, maybe, but I just dont believe it. I havent seen 1 fedex sup riding with drivers right now, and Im sure they're concerned with somekind of production right no also,,,but EVERY sup including the center manager is going out with drivers DAILY.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

we need to keep all this in mind come next contract/national election.i myself talk to the b.a. and union president weekly and have made it clear i will not support any language or article[ex.17 i]that allows sups,mngrs,etc.to treat us as guilty until proven innocent.nor will i vote for officials that will allow such as the same. for those of you that plan to make a career of ups we must start today voicing our concerns before mr.davis and atlanta make a habit of beating our backs with numbers and threats. i would picket today to get change.

 

[Jones]

Refusing to follow a supervisors direct instruction is the one area where you can be fired on the spot. I'm kind of surprised you have not seen it happen before. I've seen about 10 times in my time. I think six or seven stuck.

Nope, never seen it done "on the spot". Every time it's happened around here there has been a meeting with the shop steward, usually first thing the following morning unless there happens to be a shop steward standing around at the time.
Typical scenario-
Sup: Do this
Employee: No
Sup: Are you refusing to work as instructed?
Employee: Yes
Sup: We'll talk about this tomorrow morning. Don't plan on working.

 

[mungrin]

They dont have nearly the drama of ups. I have talked to express on my route and they dont have sups following them around .

Cmon,you are making this assumption from what you heard from a Fedex guy?Its a circus over there 100 times worse than UPS and no union.1 mistake and bam you are gone! Ive heard of Fedex guys getting fired for wearing wrong colored socks.

 

[Coldworld]

Cmon,you are making this assumption from what you heard from a Fedex guy?Its a circus over there 100 times worse than UPS and no union.1 mistake and bam you are gone! Ive heard of Fedex guys getting fired for wearing wrong colored socks.

I can only speak from the info I get from workers in this area, but are you trying to say that ups is less micromanaged than fedex????

 

[Coldworld]

we need to keep all this in mind come next contract/national election.i myself talk to the b.a. and union president weekly and have made it clear i will not support any language or article[ex.17 i]that allows sups,mngrs,etc.to treat us as guilty until proven innocent.nor will i vote for officials that will allow such as the same. for those of you that plan to make a career of ups we must start today voicing our concerns before mr.davis and atlanta make a habit of beating our backs with numbers and threats. i would picket today to get change.

What article is this your talking about ??

 

[upsgrunt]

Not necessarily. If we knew firing you would result in your leaving permenently then we would fire our peple a lot less. But since you have a union we actually fire you more. We know we will then go through some negotiation process to determine what your actual discipline will be.

The union process gets you more discipline not less.

I don't agree with this. Are you saying that workers are fired just to "mess with them", so to speak? You say if it was known that they would leave permanently, we would fire our people a lot less. Do you believe that is the only way to get their attention? Seems like too much of a militant scare tactic and that more mutual respect would be a better answer. A father doesn't disown his son every time he makes a mistake; with the amount of time, energy, and money that is invested in a worker why don't we go about things in a different way instead of going off the deep end?