driver

[tieguy]

Tie,
A couple of points...as two people with UPS management experience I really CANNOT believe you made this comment and ill go so far as to ask you to please take it back. No UPS employees role in life is to "keep the boss happy".
Every employee's job is to service the customer as best possible.

Take what back? the customer is the first boss in a long line of bosses. we the management folks define the service and cost. We determine how we measure the business. We determine what numbers we need to chase and what goals we need to achieve in order to maintain a viable business. The numbers we chase is what filters down to every employee in the business. Even I do not have the rank and authority to do my own thing. I have to work within a framework given to me by my boss. I have to keep my boss happy with the job I do. You can pass the joint and tell me that you work for the customer but the fact remains you have a boss at UPS and if you don't do what that person tells you to do then you won't work here long enough to ever "serve any customers"

"If you or anyone claims their is a universal goal among management to put the customer first, instead of trying to just cover their or glide to retirement with a few million in stock, it would be a lie (and no i am not saying or suggesting you are lying)."

Our first goal is to keep UPS a viable busines that makes money for all of us and keeps all of us employed. Putting the customer first is one facet of the business that may or may not help us achieve our primary goal of being a viable business.

Havent we reached a point where we need to remember and speak about our philosophy? Is there any building in the country that doesnt have a Jim Casey quote framed which speaks to our phiosophy. Either we address what is wrong, both management and hourly, as UPS'ers or we can let our non union competitors roll over us. Post PAS time allowances are not fair, and we know the package selection time was eliminated for the drivers which cost them about a half hour each day on their "plan" time. Couple this with preloaders that can barely read and loads that are sent out maxed and you have a need for MORE package selection allowance. Are their lazy, pathetic drivers out there that hid behind the union....ABSOLUTELY....but are there lazy, pathetic membes of management that got their job due to a quota, friendship with higher ups or just hanging around with a few million in friend.U. money and dont care anymore....ABSOLUTELY

I have to admit a lot of the posts on this board give me hope that there are enough people that still care that can right this ship before Atlanta destoys my biggest personal investment. Even the pissers and moaners must care a little or they wouldnt take the time to do it...

The rest of your post I don't disagree with. I'm not defending his boss. The guy sounds like he has a few flaws he needs to fix. What I'm trying to tell anarchy is whether or not anarchys boss is the biggest a-hole in the world that guy is anarchys boss and he can fire anarchy if anarchy is not very carefull. Feeding the flames at this time could be a huge mistake for him.

 

[trickpony1]

"Feeding the flames at this time could be a huge mistake for him."

You're right, Tie.....no one has the right to defend themselves. (sarcasm intended).

We all know that the 3 day right is a method the company uses to intimidate and harass under the guise of "production".
We all know that if a management person doesn't like you for ANY reason, and these reasons can be numerous, your life can be made miserable.
We all know that the 3 day ride is also an effective means of control over a mass of people as word spreads quickly and others shape up real quick. I believe a well known dictator in the mid-east uses this method except executions replace 3 day rides.
We all know that management is rewarded from above (not Allah) at the end of the year if their numbers look good.
None of this is a secret.

Could it be that it's anarchy's turn in the "barrel" (an old military joke that Cheryl probably doesn't want me to explain)? Possibly.
Or could it be that management enjoys singling out persons at random, not unlike the mid-east dictator, and pounding their psych? Possibly........since we all know an angry, hateful and bitter employee works much, much better and is more productive than one that is left alone or actually worked with in a facilitative manner.

What ever happened to dignity and respect as mentioned in the contract?
What ever happened to the human factor?

Before you warm up your keyboard, yes, I know there would be 23 poeple lined up to take anarchy's job........that would get all the people in all your centers jumping wouldn't it, Tie?

.....and then every one wonders why we need union representation.

 

[tieguy]

"Feeding the flames at this time could be a huge mistake for him."

You're right, Tie.....no one has the right to defend themselves. (sarcasm intended).

We all know that the 3 day right is a method the company uses to intimidate and harass under the guise of "production".
We all know that if a management person doesn't like you for ANY reason, and these reasons can be numerous, your life can be made miserable.
We all know that the 3 day ride is also an effective means of control over a mass of people as word spreads quickly and others shape up real quick. I believe a well known dictator in the mid-east uses this method except executions replace 3 day rides.
We all know that management is rewarded from above (not Allah) at the end of the year if their numbers look good.
None of this is a secret.

Could it be that it's anarchy's turn in the "barrel" (an old military joke that Cheryl probably doesn't want me to explain)? Possibly.
Or could it be that management enjoys singling out persons at random, not unlike the mid-east dictator, and pounding their psych? Possibly........since we all know an angry, hateful and bitter employee works much, much better and is more productive than one that is left alone or actually worked with in a facilitative manner.

What ever happened to dignity and respect as mentioned in the contract?
What ever happened to the human factor?

Before you warm up your keyboard, yes, I know there would be 23 poeple lined up to take anarchy's job........that would get all the people in all your centers jumping wouldn't it, Tie?
.....and then every one wonders why we need union representation.

Trick you really need to learn to read instead of always putting words into my mouth.I'm not defending managements actions in this case. What I am telling the guy is that whether its right or wrong he is in the barrel and he is in danger of losing his job if he follows your advice and keeps butting heads with managment. You on the other hand keep giving him the advice that will get him fired.

 

[dannyboy]

Anarchy


Conduct yourself at a higher plane than the manager. And from the sound of things, that should not be too hard to do.

As for your plan of action, yes, it is standard procedure here if you file a 9.5 grievance, you will get a ride. Especially if you have been getting beat on standards by a lot.

And yes, standards are some number that was prepared using the 31 secret spices and ingredients, cooked over a slow fire, then down loaded as gospel. As a over all view of the route, really is meaningless. What it can do is to compare one day to the next and allow for comparisons that way. But as to firing someone because of just numbers, it will not happen. Now belligerence, dishonesty etc, that will get you the boot our the door.

But what tie is getting to is this. If you make yourself a target, you will be shot at. Pure and simple. So be prepared for the shooting. Sometimes the subject is worth the cost, sometimes not. You have to make that call personally.

They can and will follow you around to document everything you do. Sometimes they will even enlist a customer or 12 and set up cameras inside the buildings to record your daily deliveries. They can and will use your diad against you if they can show via other means you are screwing the company. I have seen this occur at panel hearings and all this information was allowed. UPS knows what it can get by with. Dont give them any ammo.

So what I am trying to say is this. Do your best every day, follow methods and do what you are told to the best of your ability. Beyond that, they have nothing they should ever be able to gig you for. And if the 9.5's dont back off, then file again. But conduct yourself like you respect yourself. Not like a cheap thug.

 

[anarchy]

Thanks Danny boy!That is what I have and will continue to do.The 3 day ride was not the problem.My numbers were very close especially w/ all the special treatment those three days.The problem is this.I went into that meeting willing to discuss things in a professional manner.If you read my previous post,you can see it was anything but that!Even my steward was blown away by his demeanor.Personally,I cannot allow someone to treat me that way and turn the other cheek.The greivances have been filed and the corp. complaint called in.All I can do now is the job I have always done and hope that somewhere out there in UPS land someone agrees w/ me.And to tieguy,IF I was a screwoff I would not even consider doing this!

 

[helenofcalifornia]

Anarchy They are currently trying to fire a driver at our center. They can't get him on production (and my 92 year old great aunt could beat him on route!), but the have the camcorder out and have gotten him for no seatbelt and open bulkhead door. I am in your corner-please keep us posted. I would like to think Tieguy might reconsider some of the things he said. There is absolutely no room for yelling at a worker in any professional business. I am glad that scene was well documented on your side.

 

[tieguy]

Thanks Danny boy!That is what I have and will continue to do.The 3 day ride was not the problem.My numbers were very close especially w/ all the special treatment those three days.The problem is this.I went into that meeting willing to discuss things in a professional manner.If you read my previous post,you can see it was anything but that!Even my steward was blown away by his demeanor.Personally,I cannot allow someone to treat me that way and turn the other cheek.The greivances have been filed and the corp. complaint called in.All I can do now is the job I have always done and hope that somewhere out there in UPS land someone agrees w/ me.And to tieguy,IF I was a screwoff I would not even consider doing this!

never said you were a screw off.

You have a grievance based on the managers actions in that meeting. You have the shop steward as a witness. Thats a no brainer. Fight away . As I have said many times before I don't back or support unprofessional behavior by my management brothers.

Once you get done beating him with his unprofessional behavior then what? There is a reason you get the extra attention and its not all based on one over 9 grievance. If you're looking to get back to doing the job and skipping the BS then you need to find out what you are doing that gets such a negative reaction out of managment and turn it down.

Or keep the battle going if thats where you mind is. But your manager sounds like he knows how to fight that battle and you could lose everything.

 

[trickpony1]

Tie-
I'm sorry I'm so stupid please help me understand.
Anarchy said "My numbers were very close especially.....", so if it's not the numbers then what is it?
Supposedly management would never, ever harass just for the sheer thrill of it, at least that is what the company would like the public to think.
I think responses on this board, as well as yourself, have suggested that management aren't always the astute, well balanced individuals and occasionally some fall through the cracks.

I hate to beat a dead horse but, again, I ask what causes this apparent spontaneous behavior in management?

Thanks.

 

[toonertoo]

The deameanor of management is because they are trying to get unrealistic numbers from the same people who have performed well over the years. And if they dont its their job.
In a way I feel sorry for them because they have no choice. But that is why I got out as PT mgmt, because there is no recourse. Beat the hell out of them people and make them perform, or bucko YOU ARE GONE.

 

[cashmen]

Maybe the problem is the driver are getting dumber and dumber
Before ya rip me....just having a little fun!

 

[dannyboy]

I hate to beat a dead horse but, again, I ask what causes this apparent spontaneous behavior in management

Maybe the problem is the driver are getting dumber and dumber

Maybe you are on to the whole problem.

IF management is promoted from hourly.......

But that cant be, because management is hired in off the street because they are numbers whizzes like askew eskew. So that does put a different spin on it.

OF course, if you were hired from the outside because you play well with numbers, and you view all those people below you as dumb and dumber and you, the Divine number crunchers, are the only ones that have a grip on reality..............and are the only ones that know the only Divine way of running this company, and those management that used to be drivers (not talking the 30 day wonder boys) are too stupid to run the show, so now they will have to dictate exactly what and when anything gets done from their little room deep inside of UPS somewhere, but yet now that we have this Divine plan taking on a life of its own, we need to get rid of many of the employee number crunchers, because we can use those newly budding number crunchers that are still in the learning stage for next to nothing. But wait, we do need to hire more of the front line sups to assure that the new Divine plan works.

To be continued:

 

[dave_socal]

I understand what you're saying. I don't support public humiliation of our people. So now what? Is your pride worth losing your job. If it is then do what the other posters here tell you. Be the biggest A-hole you can be. Disrupt their operation. Continue the pissing contest. And then when they walk you out,,, do so proudly and brag about how you really showed them. UPS has always been a job where you work your ass off. You will always work harder tommorrow then you did today. You will always work long days. We can fool ourselves into thinking otherwise and the contract language gives you the chance to harass your harrassers over the long days. Thats all great. Employment is basically working for a boss and trying to give the boss what he/she wants. Self employed have the customer as the boss. Now somewhere along the way the union decided they could possibly change this relationship and get the job to a point where the union employee can now boss the boss and tell him what he will and won't do. The union actually gets some of their more gullible members to believe they can now boss the boss. In the end those guys get screwed over, harrassed every day, overworked and overloaded because they forget their role in life. Keep the boss happy.

So at this point you can decided you're going to keep the boss happy or you can continue on with your experiment in trying to boss the boss. I have to warn you though the boss will not play nice as you have already found out.

As for trick and the other whiners who speak of the company philosophy why don't you try to do your own job right for a change instead of pushing others into losing their jobs.

Wow great comment

 

[dannyboy]

DaveI know you meant that with a large dose of sarcasm, but that shows that you dont have a clue about his point.

As a shop steward, I have seen many drivers and part timers goaded into doing and saying stupid things by other hourly that dont have a dog in the race. It is really easy to give bad advice to someone when it is not your job on the line. Yeah, let the shop steward and the BA try and get the job back after the fact. Sometimes we can, sometimes not. But for you to suggest behavior that can jeopardize someones job and livelihood is very irresponsible.

That is unless you are really not a feeder driver, but instead a member of management that has a hard on for hourly, and this is your way of getting even?

But I dont think so. I think you are just a poor misguided soul that enjoys sitting around in the background while you encourage others to do really stupid things.

Kinda like the 6th grader that pushes and encourages the 5th grader that he can beat up two eighth graders that were picking on him. And when the 5th grader gets pounded into the ground, you skulk off and hide. You must really enjoy that type of conflict. Problem is in this case we are not talking just a bloody nose.

d

 

[cashmen]

Ok, maybe Teamsters and managers are getting dumber and dumber...somehow, i think they both run the show
the middle guy just wants to do his job and go home to his family

 

[dave_socal]

DaveI know you meant that with a large dose of sarcasm, but that shows that you dont have a clue about his point.

As a shop steward, I have seen many drivers and part timers goaded into doing and saying stupid things by other hourly that dont have a dog in the race. It is really easy to give bad advice to someone when it is not your job on the line. Yeah, let the shop steward and the BA try and get the job back after the fact. Sometimes we can, sometimes not. But for you to suggest behavior that can jeopardize someones job and livelihood is very irresponsible.

That is unless you are really not a feeder driver, but instead a member of management that has a hard on for hourly, and this is your way of getting even?

But I dont think so. I think you are just a poor misguided soul that enjoys sitting around in the background while you encourage others to do really stupid things.

Kinda like the 6th grader that pushes and encourages the 5th grader that he can beat up two eighth graders that were picking on him. And when the 5th grader gets pounded into the ground, you skulk off and hide. You must really enjoy that type of conflict. Problem is in this case we are not talking just a bloody nose.

d

Once again the boss of Condescending comments strikes again. Dantheolman you have your opinion I have mine. I have never had the need for a shop steward or Union intervention in my jobs at UPS. Why because I knew the iob was hard when I asked for it and I respect the opportunity to feed my family working for a great company. The post which I agreed with had the spirit of keeping your nose to the grindestone and forget the B.S. thats it. If you keep talking about imaginary fights bloody noses maybe you and I should meet and discuss our opinions. Now get ready for monday and your easy route so you can get back to your posting. You don't seem like a shop steward I would want in my corner if I ever needed one. Go defend all the slackers and clock milkers like youself with your long winded rants I'm sure all mangement cower as you pass. By the way how does a shop steward get the job?

 

[dave_socal]

Ok, maybe Teamsters and managers are getting dumber and dumber...somehow, i think they both run the show
the middle guy just wants to do his job and go home to his family

Yep .. thats all I'm saying

 

[dannyboy]

By the way how does a shop steward get the job?

you volunteer for the position, then get elected.

I'm glad you are a good employee. Makes me proud to have you aboard.

Problem is not the slackers and milkers as you so quickly point out. Yeah there are some, but usually they dont need a steward. The ones that do are the ones that management gets a hard on for.

Your spirit and actual post had great differences. If that spirit was what you were trying to get across, then my apology.

Just seen some awful advice given, and to the one that does not know, it could be very costly.

d

 

[santoape]

i have went through the same thing, had to be on the phone every day with the district manager. my route has changed so much over the years, and it needs a time study bad. Management said they cant do it is to costly. I told them they are just going to have to eat the numbers. They even rode with me 3 days and time was worse 150 over.