EEOC wins right to review UPS' no-beard policy nationally

[over9five]

I've heard that when UPS first set up shop in Spain, they lost all the management in whatever company they bought because of the "no beard policy".

In Spain, the men without beards are seen as unprofessional losers.

 

[I GOT ONE MORE]

Can of worms...... yep.

I guess we can all agree to disagree.

Unless,

the sun rises in the east, and sets in the west. Mostly. Usually.

 

[Bad Gas!]

WWJD?

 

[moreluck]

He would respect his employer and follow the rules made by the employer!! Jesus was not a whiner or a weiner!

 

[over9five]

I can't imagine Jesus without a beard!!!

 

[moreluck]

I could picture him with a Matthew McConnahy (sp) stubble !!

 

[trickpony1]

I think Jesus had a powerful entity to back him up so he wasn't too worried about what the employer thought.

 

[I GOT ONE MORE]

Well, I guess since the policy is being challenged on religious views.... it was merely a matter of a few posts before we got there.

Anyway speaking of GOD, I must suit up and get outside. It's cold, gonna have to wear a shirt. Only gonna make it to the 70's today. Thank you GOD.

Looks like the Ravens are handing it to the Pats. If it holds, that would give my Chargers home field for the AFC champ game, assuming they beat the Ravens, assuming.......assuming

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Well, I guess since the policy is being challenged on religious views.... it was merely a matter of a few posts before we got there.

Anyway speaking of GOD, I must suit up and get outside. It's cold, gonna have to wear a shirt. Only gonna make it to the 70's today. Thank you GOD.

Looks like the Ravens are handing it to the Pats. If it holds, that would give my Chargers home field for the AFC champ game, assuming they beat the Ravens, assuming.......assuming

If you had a beard would you not wear a shirt?

 

[I GOT ONE MORE]

If you had a beard would you not wear a shirt?

LOL good one

But, I have been on vacation this past week ..... and the wife is looking forward for me going back to work tomorrow. I get out of her soup and return to that soft and smooth look she prefers.

 

[1989]

You may wish to research before you post. While the military does have strict grooming guidelines (AFR 35-10), they will also grant shaving waivers for certain medical conditions, usually ingrown hairs common among African Americans.

So does UPS

 

[soberups]

What would a customer think of a driver who comes in when the temp is below 25* wearing shorts, with long hair even if it is tucked up under a net, and an earring?

I wear shorts all winter long. I wore them a month ago when it was 12 degrees outside. I wore them in the snow. My customers admire me for it, they would be shocked if I ever wimped out and wore pants. I dont think I even have any pants that fit.

Shorts and earrings and long hair (tucked into a hat) are all OK, but I agree with the no beard rule. I was told the rule prior to being hired, and I made my choice accordingly.

A person whose religion requires a beard should remain true to their faith and seek employment elsewhere. It would be a different thing if beards had been allowed and then the company tried to change the rules after the fact, but the rule has always been there and always been consistent.

It reminds me of that Islamic woman who wanted to get her drivers license photo with her face covered by a bhurka. I respect her beliefs, but faith is a choice and choices have consequences.

 

[satellitedriver]

The military is overwhelming beard free, though.

For good reasons,
face mask seal,
camo paint,
and the one thing you do not want in hand to hand is a beard for someone to grab on to.

 

[satellitedriver]

EEOC wins battle over UPS discrimination records

Just to lighten this thread.
Try and fight the "law".

 

[JimJimmyJames]

If you are legally allowed to participate in a religous organization then you legally must be allowed to reasonably follow that religion's traditions and rules. Having a beard, I feel, falls under the definition of reasonable.

Let the courts decide.

I personally hope the company loses this one because I have never agreed with the no beard rule. If it were a safety issue I would understand, but it's not.

 

[soberups]

If you are legally allowed to participate in a religous organization then you legally must be allowed to reasonably follow that religion's traditions and rules. Having a beard, I feel, falls under the definition of reasonable.

Let the courts decide.

I personally hope the company loses this one because I have never agreed with the no beard rule. If it were a safety issue I would understand, but it's not.

It isnt reasonable to accept employment at a place with rules that violate some tenet of your personal beliefs and then expect that employer to change a long standing policy to accomodate you.

It would be different if your were allowed to have the beard when you were hired and the company decided to change the rule after the fact.
That is not the case here, the rule was already established and someone whose religous beliefs conflicted with that rule should never have taken the job to begin with.

 

[iowa boy]

It isnt reasonable to accept employment at a place with rules that violate some tenet of your personal beliefs and then expect that employer to change a long standing policy to accomodate you.

It would be different if your were allowed to have the beard when you were hired and the company decided to change the rule after the fact.
That is not the case here, the rule was already established and someone whose religous beliefs conflicted with that rule should never have taken the job to begin with.

Sober,
I'm not trying to argue your post here as I believe you are 100% correct. But, there are many, many people out there that believe the "rules" don't apply to them as they are in some way 'special' and should be afforded priviledges that you and I don't get. I think you will agree with me on that.

 

[over9five]

But how about UPSs "Equal Opportunity Employer" status? Does this mean religious people with beards can only be janitors? Doesn't "Equal Opportunity" mean equal opportunity to be a driver as well?

 

[soberups]

But how about UPSs "Equal Opportunity Employer" status? Does this mean religious people with beards can only be janitors? Doesn't "Equal Opportunity" mean equal opportunity to be a driver as well?

So what if my faith dictates that I must take the last 3 weeks of December off for religious observances? Should UPS be forced to accomodate me, or should I be required to question whether or not my faith is compatible with the requirements of the job that I am choosing to apply for?

If your faith regards alcohol as a sin, should you be allowed to seek employment at a tavern and then require the tavern to stop serving liquor in order to accomodate your beliefs?

"Equal opportunity" simply means that ones faith is not a factor in the hiring process. It should not create an obligation on the part of the employer to change the rules to accomodate every need that a particular faith might have.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

I think over has nailed it.

Sober, I also think it would be unreasonable to require an establishment that sells liquor, not to sell liquor, in order to placate an employee's religous beliefs.

It is a fine line here, but I really cannot see a beard being that big of a deal. After all it is a naturally occurring part of the human condition, well at least of the male side of it. It is a reasonable request to be allowed to have one.

And I know we are asked to sign a paper to agree to the company's rules not to grow one. But we all agree to a lot of rules that the company imposes that we feel are unjust but we obey them anyway. Does that mean we do not fight to change them? Why do we negotiate contracts to begin with? All I am saying is let's renegotiate the no beard policy.

Wow, Sober, I actually disagree with you on something. That is a rare occurence, hehe .