ethics in management

[Mike Hawk]

I think we are screwing ourselves by not increasing starting wage and delaying benefits. I don't know the actual figures but many part timers don’t even last a year so this job will be much less desirable when Taco Bell pays more, offers more hours and flexible hours. Oh and you don't have to bust your butt at Taco Bell either. Personally I am not looking forward to loading 8 trucks because they couldn’t replace the guy that quit.

 

[dannyboy]

Psss Hey mike, taco bell aready pays more. As does wendys around here.

Its hard to get up at 3:30 in the morning to go to work only to get 3.5 hours at the UPS min wage. and it is very very difficult to get good quality workers at that price. Most of the ones that do get hired on that are any good are married with kids. And insurance is a biggie for them.

They dont have to pay that, but it is the min they have to pay. If you will kindly notice, they can, if the situation warrants, pay more than what is in the contract.

We will have to see what happens over the next few years.

Times have sure changed from when I started part time, and you had to be a full time student just to be able to work here. But the starting wage was quite a bit more than what you could get working at mcdonalds.

d

 

[wannabeups]

I think the pay for part timers is poor. I would like it higher.

Where does that money come from?

I find it interesting that you want to take credit for the good pay of full time drivers, but blame UPS for the poor pay of the part timers.

Isn't it all part of the same contract? I guess it wasn't important enough to either side.

P-Man

Amen the Union sold out the part-timers. It is a clear case of people thinking only of themselves.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Psss Hey mike, taco bell aready pays more. As does wendys around here.

Its hard to get up at 3:30 in the morning to go to work only to get 3.5 hours at the UPS min wage. and it is very very difficult to get good quality workers at that price. Most of the ones that do get hired on that are any good are married with kids. And insurance is a biggie for them.

They dont have to pay that, but it is the min they have to pay. If you will kindly notice, they can, if the situation warrants, pay more than what is in the contract.

We will have to see what happens over the next few years.

Times have sure changed from when I started part time, and you had to be a full time student just to be able to work here. But the starting wage was quite a bit more than what you could get working at mcdonalds.

d

I pray that I don’t read about UPS paying more than the contract requires over dinner, for I will surely choke from the shock. The benefit will have to outweigh the cost so exactly how short staffed will part time operations get before UPS raises the starting wage?

 

[tieguy]

UPS's first "offer" in 1997, if taken would have allowed unlimited subcontracting at the discretion of the company. You wouldnt have a pension, because you wouldnt have a job.

or so ron told you.

I respect the point that you're still loyal to ronnie's BS after he has been totally discredited at this time.

 

[tieguy]

It is naive tom think that the CEO of UPS just "signed off" on 6 billion out of the kindness of his heart. It was a business decision, made with future profits in mind, nothing more. He doesnt care about you or your pension.

Sober you responded to a post where satallite thanked ups for fixing his pension.

You responded by making the point that ups did so for profit reasons in an effort discredit that point.

The point still remains that ups spent six billion dollars to fix the CS pension regardless.

When someone steps in to fix a pension I don't think anyone cares that it might help ups's bottom line five years from now. Think about it.

Lord knows the teamsters union was not going to get it fixed.

 

[UpsSuP1]

It is what it is . . .

 

[HazMatMan]

DS

The hitlers come and go. And when they are gone, you will still be doing the same job you did when they got there.

I always looked at it this way. I work for UPS, not you. I will still be working for UPS when you are gone. THat made the harrassment easier to take.

d

I worked for a few "Hitlers" seems most of them were short. Any truth to the theory?

 

[Just curious]

Anyone know what happened to the divy at the DC/MD hub? Gone without notice. Who's the replacement?

 

[soberups]

How do you screw some one that isn't hired yet?

The intent of the contract is designed for those folks who can vote at the time there is an offer.

If you hire on after the contract has been implemented you accept the terms of the contract. You are not getting screwed if you decide to work here. You make a conscience decision to accept the job. You can go elsewhere if you don't like the contract.

What we are basically doing is passing the entire cost of the Central States pension buyout onto future employees. At the end of this new contract, a newly hired UPS employee will be making minimum wage with no benefits.
A more equitable way to pay for the buyout...and one that I would have voted "yes" on....would be a 5-year pay freeze for seniority drivers. New hires coming in the door should not be asked to pay union dues for a minimum-wage job while their coworkers are making $80K a year. And by the way, I am a 21 year full time driver so this would have affected me directly.

 

[soberups]

or so ron told you.

I respect the point that you're still loyal to ronnie's BS after he has been totally discredited at this time.

Ron was full of BS, but I read the contract offer. There was a clause in it that would have allowed unlimited subcontracting at the discretion of the company. This would have rendered all other aspects o the contract irrelevant. If I can find a copy of the proposal I will post a link.

 

[soberups]

The point still remains that ups spent six billion dollars to fix the CS pension regardless.

When someone steps in to fix a pension I don't think anyone cares that it might help ups's bottom line five years from now. Think about it.

Lord knows the teamsters union was not going to get it fixed.

UPS put up the 6 billion to fix the pension, but it is getting that money back by keeping future part-time hires starting at minimum wage with no benefits. My point was that UPS didnt just cough up 6 bil. in order to "be nice".

 

[Griff]

I think the pay for part timers is poor. I would like it higher.

Where does that money come from?

I find it interesting that you want to take credit for the good pay of full time drivers, but blame UPS for the poor pay of the part timers.

Isn't it all part of the same contract? I guess it wasn't important enough to either side.

P-Man

It's not important to either side because PT employees generally carry around one of two mindsets.

1) I'm just using this as a stepping stone to become <insert higher paying ups job>.

2) I'm just here for the benefits/college reimbursement.

Very rarely will you come across a PT employee who is entrenched in the union culture. A lot of them are transitional workers like college students just looking for beer money. Depending on how strong your local is, you'd be hard pressed to find a PT employee at a union hall meeting.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil and PT'ers don't make any noise.

Soberups couldn't of said it any better than he has in this thread. It speaks volumes about someones critical thinking skills when they personally believe UPS went out of their way to "save their pension". Like soberups said, it was nothing more than a savvy business decision and they will come out on the winning end of it financially. UPS doesn't care about you, your family or your well being (beyond being able to produce for them) -- for anyone to believe otherwise is very sick and twisted. Hourly, management, union or non-union -- it doesn't matter. This is a business and you're just another replaceable cog in the big brown machine like the rest of us, you aren't special.

Edit -- I also feel it's worthy of noting that in my transition from a PT hourly to a FT hourly, I noticed a very large difference in representation and the BA's vested interest. Since my dues are way higher than a PT employee, they seem to care more. Issues that I brought to the table as a PT employee were often put on the back burner and now as a FT driver these issues are placed in the spotlight. I find this practice to be downright criminal and something needs to be done about this.

 

[1989]

UPS put up the 6 billion to fix the pension, but it is getting that money back by keeping future part-time hires starting at minimum wage with no benefits. My point was that UPS didnt just cough up 6 bil. in order to "be nice".

The teamsters sure didn't cough up 6 billion. UPS shouldn't have had to pay anything to fix a problem they offered to fix a decade ago.

 

[soberups]

The teamsters sure didn't cough up 6 billion. UPS shouldn't have had to pay anything to fix a problem they offered to fix a decade ago.

Their proposed "fix" for the problem a decade ago would have been to allow unlimited subcontracting and turn UPS into a non-union company. No union=no pension. Problem solved.
I agree that Central States needed to be saved...my only point is that it shouldnt be done on the backs of part-time employees who havent even been hired yet. I voted "no" on this contract, I felt that the cost should be borne by the current, highest-paid membership.
The Pension Reform Act of 2008 is what forced UPS to confront this issue....it had absolutely nothing to do with generosity or compassion. The fund was over 6 billion in the hole. The money had to come from somewhere. UPS cut a check, but the part-timers of the future are the ones who are really paying the bill.

 

[1989]

Their proposed "fix" for the problem a decade ago would have been to allow unlimited subcontracting and turn UPS into a non-union company. No union=no pension. Problem solved.
I agree that Central States needed to be saved...my only point is that it shouldnt be done on the backs of part-time employees who havent even been hired yet. I voted "no" on this contract, I felt that the cost should be borne by the current, highest-paid membership.
The Pension Reform Act of 2008 is what forced UPS to confront this issue....it had absolutely nothing to do with generosity or compassion. The fund was over 6 billion in the hole. The money had to come from somewhere. UPS cut a check, but the part-timers of the future are the ones who are really paying the bill.

Sub-contrating feeder runs is a different issue than the pension problem. Maybe the teamsters should have had to pay the difference between the cost of getting out in 1997 and getting out now. Do you think the burden should have been on all full timers or just the ones in the central states? Such in life, the unborn has no say on their future or possible future.

 

[soberups]

Sub-contrating feeder runs is a different issue than the pension problem. Maybe the teamsters should have had to pay the difference between the cost of getting out in 1997 and getting out now. Do you think the burden should have been on all full timers or just the ones in the central states? Such in life, the unborn has no say on their future or possible future.

The '97 proposal would have allowed unlimited subcontracting in packages as well as feeder. UPS would have "bought out" the pension, only to eliminate all union employees and replace them with fedex ground-style independent contractors with no pensions at all.
As to your second question; the burden of buying out Central States should have been on ALL fulltimers nationwide, myself included. As a bargaining unit we are only as strong as our weakest link. I am in the Western Conference, my pension is in good shape, but only if we can continue to bargain effectively on a nationwide basis.
Do some reearch. Learn the facts. The 6 billion buyout from UPS wasnt charity. It was part of an overall economic equation, no different from any other contract we have ever negotiated....except the people who are really getting hosed havent been hired yet.

 

[satellitedriver]

UPS's first "offer" in 1997, if taken would have allowed unlimited subcontracting at the discretion of the company. You wouldnt have a pension, because you wouldnt have a job.

Sober up, soberups.
No where in the contract offer in 97' did it give Ups "unlimited" subcontracting rights.
You use this term in all your posts in this thread and it is false.
I lost 60% of my pension since 97' under The teamster/cs plan.
Ups brought the amount back to 100% of what the teamsters promised 11 years ago.
I still have my job, without the teamsters help.
It is called doing the job you are paid to do.

 

[soberups]

Sober up, soberups.

I lost 60% of my pension since 97' under The teamster/cs plan.
Ups brought the amount back to 100% of what the teamsters promised 11 years ago.
I still have my job, without the teamsters help.
It is called doing the job you are paid to do.

No, the part-timers who havent been hired yet are the ones who are bringing your pension back up. UPS cut a check for $6 billion to comply with the Pension Reform Act of 2008. That 6 billion is coming from somewhere. It isnt charity, it isnt a "gift".
You have seniority, you have a pension, you have job security and bidding rights because of yor labor agreement. Ask a FedEx Ground or DHL driver about seniority or bidding rights sometime.

 

[1989]

The '97 proposal would have allowed unlimited subcontracting in packages as well as feeder. UPS would have "bought out" the pension, only to eliminate all union employees and replace them with fedex ground-style independent contractors with no pensions at all.
As to your second question; the burden of buying out Central States should have been on ALL fulltimers nationwide, myself included. As a bargaining unit we are only as strong as our weakest link. I am in the Western Conference, my pension is in good shape, but only if we can continue to bargain effectively on a nationwide basis.
Do some reearch. Learn the facts. The 6 billion buyout from UPS wasnt charity. It was part of an overall economic equation, no different from any other contract we have ever negotiated....except the people who are really getting hosed havent been hired yet.

Not true, there was a pension in 97 and no subcontracting in package. At least in the western confrence.