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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 266490" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Guy,</p><p>On the surface, what you say would seem to make sense but it's not completely true. The corner H&R Block or Joe's Tax Return service would suffer but the larger accounting business would not. I have an accounting service prepare my returns and several years ago when the idea of Flat taxes, the first national sales tax idea known as CATS was floating around I asked the head of the firm and some of the senior partners about it and they all welcomed the idea. Tax preparations were not that important part of their business and in fact was really a drain come the months of March and April and then a few months later when extension season hit into gear. They even said that a sales tax will still require record keeping and tax processing and by further compressing the process into a smaller arena, it would simplify their lives by reducing the amount of tax code and law that they much remain abreast of.</p><p> </p><p>My next stop was to my next door neighbor who started 26 years ago as a lowly revenue agent for the IRS and is now a regional criminal investigator. Before you think "Oh <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/censored2.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":censored2:" title="Censored2 :censored2:" data-shortname=":censored2:" />!" he is a fantastic neighbor. You think Cops on TV is funny, you should hear some of the stories he tells about. Anyway, he also said the same thing about the impact on the IRS in regards to changing to a national sales tax. Sure, some of the tax processing would go away but he also said much of that is now automated. Your tax return is gone over via automation procedures and given what is called a "DIF" score which scores your deductions based on a mean average of those deductions within your income brackett. If a deduction bounces outside those averages, the Dif score will flag your return for further review and a physical person will take over an potential audit could be the result. The biggest impact of a national sales tax would be in this automated function and also the seasnonal hire or processing personal in the tax return season. The day to day operations would actually be refocused to the sales tax and enforcing the processing and collection of such. It would in fact be easier for IRS personal too as the elimination of sections of the tax code would take place, thus the amount of regualtory law to remember and deal with would also reduce.</p><p> </p><p>I'm not a supporter of the FairTax because I first off believe you could eliminate the 16th amendment altogether. The Fair Tax would also do this as the sales tax is not an income tax but rather an excise tax provided for in Article 1 of the Constitution. The potential double whammy that I really expect to happen is that the 16th amendment would stay in place because like the 3/4ths State process to add an amendment, so must the same process for removal and I just think our gov't would deceptively try to convince the ignorant public, removal of the amendment wasn't needed so that if need be you get that double whammy some day.</p><p> </p><p>Why replace one tax plan with another plan believed to be revenue neutral when you have a gov't in Washington who just wastes the money in the first place? If we had honest and fiscally minded elected leaders, the current income tax (Karl Marx and the 10 planks not withstanding) would work just fine if you felt that was really needed to begin with. I happen to believe the income tax enacted by amendment the same year as the Federal Reserve came into being is a necessary means when our move into a centralized fractional reserve banking system and a means of inflationary control but that's a whole other issue and story. An no it's not some Jekyll Island conspiracy, it's pure economic principles. It's also when we moved lockstep from what was left of a pure Free Market and into a purely capitalistic economic society dictated by public policy out of Washington.</p><p> </p><p>Even the Social Security tax monies are spent on waste and earmarks as fast as congress gets them and replaced with an IOU to be paid by future taxpayers at best. Funny, we have a union and pension plan accused of doing similar things in the way of mismanagement of funds and we hear an almost unnanimous cry of "FOUL" and "CHANGE THE SYSTEM" but with Social Security we hear many of those same people cry "FOUL" when any discussion hints at changing that system. Kinda odd that when it comes to the union or UPS they have no faith (me neither)when the facts can show that not all the problems can be traced to pure abuse but rather some results because of market conditions and demographics of declining union memebership. The mismanagement came that they failed to react to those obvious conditions rather than moving monies into power grabbing schemes. Those had ended a couple of decades ago. </p><p> </p><p>In the case of SS, it's an issue of pure abuse and irresponsible fiscal behavior as both parties in the Congress and the White House to use this so-called trust fund among others as a slush fund for funding budget deficits and vote buying schemes otherwise known as earmarks which cause much of the deficits.</p><p> </p><p>If they are abusing the current system forcing upward pressures on taxation, then those same forces will be at play with a FairTax plan and when the consumer isn't consumming enough or they just need more money, they'll raise the % of tax at the point of sale. I appreciate the effort that Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder have put into the FairTax and especially the public debate it has generated. It's a very welcomed debate IMO and both men deserve praise for it but I also think it will fail in the end even if passed because of the irresponsible fiscal nature of the Federal gov't in Washington DC and our lack of conviction as voters to put a stop to it.</p><p> </p><p>JMHO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 266490, member: 2189"] Guy, On the surface, what you say would seem to make sense but it's not completely true. The corner H&R Block or Joe's Tax Return service would suffer but the larger accounting business would not. I have an accounting service prepare my returns and several years ago when the idea of Flat taxes, the first national sales tax idea known as CATS was floating around I asked the head of the firm and some of the senior partners about it and they all welcomed the idea. Tax preparations were not that important part of their business and in fact was really a drain come the months of March and April and then a few months later when extension season hit into gear. They even said that a sales tax will still require record keeping and tax processing and by further compressing the process into a smaller arena, it would simplify their lives by reducing the amount of tax code and law that they much remain abreast of. My next stop was to my next door neighbor who started 26 years ago as a lowly revenue agent for the IRS and is now a regional criminal investigator. Before you think "Oh :censored:!" he is a fantastic neighbor. You think Cops on TV is funny, you should hear some of the stories he tells about. Anyway, he also said the same thing about the impact on the IRS in regards to changing to a national sales tax. Sure, some of the tax processing would go away but he also said much of that is now automated. Your tax return is gone over via automation procedures and given what is called a "DIF" score which scores your deductions based on a mean average of those deductions within your income brackett. If a deduction bounces outside those averages, the Dif score will flag your return for further review and a physical person will take over an potential audit could be the result. The biggest impact of a national sales tax would be in this automated function and also the seasnonal hire or processing personal in the tax return season. The day to day operations would actually be refocused to the sales tax and enforcing the processing and collection of such. It would in fact be easier for IRS personal too as the elimination of sections of the tax code would take place, thus the amount of regualtory law to remember and deal with would also reduce. I'm not a supporter of the FairTax because I first off believe you could eliminate the 16th amendment altogether. The Fair Tax would also do this as the sales tax is not an income tax but rather an excise tax provided for in Article 1 of the Constitution. The potential double whammy that I really expect to happen is that the 16th amendment would stay in place because like the 3/4ths State process to add an amendment, so must the same process for removal and I just think our gov't would deceptively try to convince the ignorant public, removal of the amendment wasn't needed so that if need be you get that double whammy some day. Why replace one tax plan with another plan believed to be revenue neutral when you have a gov't in Washington who just wastes the money in the first place? If we had honest and fiscally minded elected leaders, the current income tax (Karl Marx and the 10 planks not withstanding) would work just fine if you felt that was really needed to begin with. I happen to believe the income tax enacted by amendment the same year as the Federal Reserve came into being is a necessary means when our move into a centralized fractional reserve banking system and a means of inflationary control but that's a whole other issue and story. An no it's not some Jekyll Island conspiracy, it's pure economic principles. It's also when we moved lockstep from what was left of a pure Free Market and into a purely capitalistic economic society dictated by public policy out of Washington. Even the Social Security tax monies are spent on waste and earmarks as fast as congress gets them and replaced with an IOU to be paid by future taxpayers at best. Funny, we have a union and pension plan accused of doing similar things in the way of mismanagement of funds and we hear an almost unnanimous cry of "FOUL" and "CHANGE THE SYSTEM" but with Social Security we hear many of those same people cry "FOUL" when any discussion hints at changing that system. Kinda odd that when it comes to the union or UPS they have no faith (me neither)when the facts can show that not all the problems can be traced to pure abuse but rather some results because of market conditions and demographics of declining union memebership. The mismanagement came that they failed to react to those obvious conditions rather than moving monies into power grabbing schemes. Those had ended a couple of decades ago. In the case of SS, it's an issue of pure abuse and irresponsible fiscal behavior as both parties in the Congress and the White House to use this so-called trust fund among others as a slush fund for funding budget deficits and vote buying schemes otherwise known as earmarks which cause much of the deficits. If they are abusing the current system forcing upward pressures on taxation, then those same forces will be at play with a FairTax plan and when the consumer isn't consumming enough or they just need more money, they'll raise the % of tax at the point of sale. I appreciate the effort that Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder have put into the FairTax and especially the public debate it has generated. It's a very welcomed debate IMO and both men deserve praise for it but I also think it will fail in the end even if passed because of the irresponsible fiscal nature of the Federal gov't in Washington DC and our lack of conviction as voters to put a stop to it. JMHO. [/QUOTE]
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