Fed Expectations

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
UPS asked to buy out of the multi-employer pension plans so UPS dollars would go only to UPS pensioners.


The ironic thing is, isn't that what happened anyways in the last contract, with UPS buying it's way out of Central States?

Precisely. The main difference is the price tag. In 97 UPS offered to infuse the pensions with $2B in cash. In 2008 UPS got out of central at least, for $6B.

Maybe UPS did not offer enough in 97, but the union did not make a counter on the pensions, they did not negotiate on that at all. They just told everyone UPS was trying to take control and subsequently destroy the pension. A lot of people believed it.
 

dragracer66

Well-Known Member
:sick:
apparently we make each other laugh. my benefits are paid for out of pocket. yeah, a little over eight hundred a month. good plan for the money though. vacation? one of my contracts is the vacation contract, but i hire someone else to do most of the work. i usually work 3-4 hours a day, easy stuff though. no, no pension, but i do have 6 routes i can sell for 70-100k each. actually one of them is for sale if you're interested. as for making more money, i doubt it, but if you do, i guarantee you work harder for it than i do.:happy2:sick personal days? any day i want. as mel brooks once said, "it's good to be the king." "get jack"? what is "get jack" i think i'm supposed to be offended, but for the life of me i'm only intrigued in what it could possibly mean. "get jack" and please, relax i can almost feel your blood pressure through the keyboard. i'm sure you're position at brown is secure so why incur the need to use your health care over something as frivolous as words on a page. that just makes everyone's health care costs go up.
No I don't have high blood pressure I just laugh when you type stupid stuff your rating shows that I'm not the only one who thinks that. Why would I buy your route ups or fed ex is going to get that one and the others you are going to lose in the next month or so for free!!! But don't worry mac tools or snap on tools are always looking for tool guys and heck you'll have the trucks!!!!
 
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brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
It starts with buying out the teamster plans. Then suddenly it switches to a 401k with a match that is no where near the amount the company was putting in the teamster plans per employee. Then suddenly times are tough and there is no longer a match. Now the employee is 100% funding his own retirement. Happened with fedex and many other companies. Just sayin.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
It starts with buying out the teamster plans. Then suddenly it switches to a 401k with a match that is no where near the amount the company was putting in the teamster plans per employee. Then suddenly times are tough and there is no longer a match. Now the employee is 100% funding his own retirement. Happened with fedex and many other companies. Just sayin.

OK, but in the way the plan was proposed in '97, each of those steps you describe would have had to be agreed to by the Teamsters representatives on the pension governing board. That is what the company asked for, a plan governed equally by UPS and the Teamsters. So, if it was the plan to "suddenly switch to a 401K" UPS would have had to get the Teamsters to agree to a sudden switch to a 401K.

You really think that could have happened? You really think the company was stupid enough to think it might?
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
Asking me what I think the company is stupid enough to do is a loaded question. You start by pulling out one brick, the wall still stands. Brick by brick the wall gets weaker until it crumbles.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Asking me what I think the company is stupid enough to do is a loaded question. You start by pulling out one brick, the wall still stands. Brick by brick the wall gets weaker until it crumbles.


But my point is that there was no pulling of bricks. The plan, as proposed, was set up so that the Teamsters would have to agree to any brick pulling. That is my point.
 

brownmonster

Man of Great Wisdom
I see your point but by setting up a plan that is now Teamster/Ups the first brick is pulled. I don't think truly securing the pension of the UPS worker was either sides number one goal. People of power want control.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
As far as breaking the union consider a couple of points:

The teamsters were well prepared for this strike. They had thier marketing plan already set up selling the part timers wanting full time jobs theme. They had professional spokes people already hired to go out on tv and sell that theme.

UPS on the other hand stumbled badly in public and quickly lost the marketing war because they were not prepared for the strike.

Jim Kelly went on meet the press and was constantly asked about replacement workers. He refused to consider that option and continously answered that he just wanted to get this settled and get "our people" back.

As the strike continued into the third week we had large shippers begging us to start picking them up. As we cleaned up our system during this time the plan that was being formulated would have had us picking up from these large shippers charging them premium prices with no time guarantees. We could have ridden this strike out for a long time charging premium prices. Shippers would have had no other option but to pay what we asked.

Put it all together and I think it shows that UPS was ill prepared for any such concept of breaking the union and had no intent to do so.

We were absolutely overwhelmed with volume, and could not handle it. The third week comment is correct because we couldn't service them even if everyone worked 24/7. Not enough equipment, lift, or facilities to even come close. It was a zoo.

Most of the customers we got went back to UPS. Even though some claimed "they'd never go back", they did.

Now that FedEx Ground has grown so large, it might be different if there were another strike,especially in a down economy. Most shippers really don't like FedEx Ground anyway and only use them based on rates, not service.
 

skir

Los Angeles CA
hopefully fedex still need you when you retire, just ask the DHL contractors what happen to them. I don't their routes are $100,000 anymore.

Most people on my route think the fedex ground guys are a joke. Unprofessional, rude, illegal immigrant, dirty, damaged dirty trucks, if they had a choice they would not use them. On my route the the two fedex ground route has only 3 p/u, 2 mailbox stores rarely ship with them and one Kinkos. All the of the ground shipped on my route gets p/u by me. Thats what happens when you have underpaid slaves doing those routes.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
That is what the company asked for, a plan governed equally by UPS and the Teamsters.

Interesting. In my local at the time we were being sold that the company wanted complete control of the pension.

Unfortunately, I was too young and hated my job too much to investigate exactly what was going on. The strike to me meant a couple of weeks I didn't have to go to work and a big middle finger to the company for the way I felt we were mistreated.

With age, and a change of jobs within the company, comes wisdom. Or at least the semblance of it :).
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Interesting. In my local at the time we were being sold that the company wanted complete control of the pension.

Unfortunately, I was too young and hated my job too much to investigate exactly what was going on. The strike to me meant a couple of weeks I didn't have to go to work and a big middle finger to the company for the way I felt we were mistreated.

With age, and a change of jobs within the company, comes wisdom. Or at least the semblance of it :).


That is the way the union spun it at the time, and many believed it. I was in a non-management technical role back then, so I was sorta on the side lines being neither union or management. I actually looked at the plan as proposed. I also read material put out by the Teamsters. The proposed pension plan I believe was to be managed by a board of trustees, 6 if memory serves, 3 chosen by the company 3 by the teamsters.

To this day, many still believe the company was trying to destroy the pension. The company did give compelling arguments that it was trying to ensure the long term viability of it, at least for UPSers. To use brownmonsters wall analogy, what the company was trying to do was put mortar into a wall that was crumbling under its own weight, not remove any bricks.

Was their other more nefarious motivations spoken of only behind closed doors? I won't try to claim to know. I will say that the company's argument that the pension needed to be restructured was in some measure proven out by what has actually come to pass with Central States.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
No I don't have high blood pressure I just laugh when you type stupid stuff your rating shows that I'm not the only one who thinks that. Why would I buy your route ups or fed ex is going to get that one and the others you are going to lose in the next month or so for free!!! But don't worry mac tools or snap on tools are always looking for tool guys and heck you'll have the trucks!!!!
oh my gosh!:surprised: my rating on brown cafe is low! as is nearly every other "pro fedex" poster. amazing. but as you say, maybe one day i'll be with mac or snap on. because fed ex is horrible and soon will be out of business and ups can come in and save the shipping industry! (there. maybe that will be sufficiently hateful to fedex to bring my rating up) lol
 

barnyard

KTM rider
My boss said that she thought that if UPS only had to pay pensions to UPS people that retiree payments would improve over time. As I understand it, the monthly pension payment has not changed since I started at UPS (which means, in real dollars, it has gone down.)

Right now, our building has a few that are ready to retire. They look at how much $3000/month buys and say that they cannot afford to retire.

TB
 

Highwayman

Well-Known Member
If or when YRC goes down pensions will take a big time hit since most are multi-employer plans. That's the problem with these plans, paying for oob companies pensions.:anxious:
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
:wink2:
oh my gosh!:surprised: my rating on brown cafe is low! as is nearly every other "pro fedex" poster. amazing. but as you say, maybe one day i'll be with mac or snap on. because fed ex is horrible and soon will be out of business and ups can come in and save the shipping industry! (there. maybe that will be sufficiently hateful to fedex to bring my rating up) lol
it worked! i improved my own rating by bashing fedex! and now i'm quoting myself...and talking to myself...and wondering does this say more about me or brown cafe? now that is funny.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
:wink2:
it worked! i improved my own rating by bashing fedex! and now i'm quoting myself...and talking to myself...and wondering does this say more about me or brown cafe? now that is funny.

Your rating improved because I was in a good mood yesterday. Did you even read what I wrote? I wished you a Happy Father's Day and gave you positive rep.

From what I have read here, you sound like you have good business sense and are taking full advantage of the contractor model and will be ready when Fred shifts more work to you and your employees, which will happen if he loses the RLA exemption. It is also apparent that, if your business agreement with FedEx were to end, that you would simply move on to the next business venture.

Good luck to you whichever way this works out. Dave.
 

shrimpfire

shrimpfire
We were absolutely overwhelmed with volume, and could not handle it. The third week comment is correct because we couldn't service them even if everyone worked 24/7. Not enough equipment, lift, or facilities to even come close. It was a zoo.

Most of the customers we got went back to UPS. Even though some claimed "they'd never go back", they did.

Now that FedEx Ground has grown so large, it might be different if there were another strike,especially in a down economy. Most shippers really don't like FedEx Ground anyway and only use them based on rates, not service.
go for it
 

dragracer66

Well-Known Member
Your rating improved because I was in a good mood yesterday. Did you even read what I wrote? I wished you a Happy Father's Day and gave you positive rep.

From what I have read here, you sound like you have good business sense and are taking full advantage of the contractor model and will be ready when Fred shifts more work to you and your employees, which will happen if he loses the RLA exemption. It is also apparent that, if your business agreement with FedEx were to end, that you would simply move on to the next business venture.

Good luck to you whichever way this works out. Dave.
Upstate... I disagree partly on what you said. I believe if fed ex loses the rla exemption the teamsters would try to organize fed ex rather quickly. And if they become organized there is no way they would let outside contractors to continue operate there just like we don't have them. I do relize this won't happen right away but you have to believe the teamsters are chomping on the bit for this to go through. Its definately going to be an interesting month or so. In my building we have pickup quite a bit of former fed ex customers. I don't know if its because of the rla or not but we will take what ever we can get....
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Your rating improved because I was in a good mood yesterday. Did you even read what I wrote? I wished you a Happy Father's Day and gave you positive rep.

From what I have read here, you sound like you have good business sense and are taking full advantage of the contractor model and will be ready when Fred shifts more work to you and your employees, which will happen if he loses the RLA exemption. It is also apparent that, if your business agreement with FedEx were to end, that you would simply move on to the next business venture.

Good luck to you whichever way this works out. Dave.
why thank-you dave, and yes i had a wonderful father's day and i hope you did as well. as for positive and negative rep's i don't know that it matters. i will always be in a minority on this sight and that's fine. actually until it was pointed out to me i never even realized there was such a thing as a positive or negative rep. but not really here to win a popularity contest, just find the conversation interesing.
 

whiskey

Well-Known Member
I guess if we can go off on tangents, I can jump in to. The 1997 strike was nothing more than a pissing contest between Kelly and Carey. Everything we won is gone now. The goodwill, softball theme, company pickups ended abruptly. And the free rain gear disappeared off the face of the earth. Subtle reminders of hardball. What goes around, comes around. We'll welcome the new Fedex Teamsters with open arms. All 400,000 of them.
 
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