H_E_Pennypacker
Large Member
Yes, but take a look at FedEx's ground growth percentage last quarter; then look at UPS's... There is a distinct trend.
FedEx Home wins round in Unionization efforts
- Thread starter Catatonic
- Start date
Yes, but take a look at FedEx's ground growth percentage last quarter; then look at UPS's... There is a distinct trend.
H_E_Pennypacker
Large Member
I won't even go so far as to say FedEx should be unionized... that should be the choice of the employees. The rules by which they decide should be the same as UPS.
If they were unionized and you took wages out of competition; that would leave the companies to compete solely on service, innovation, marketing, etc.
Livin the Dream?
Disillusioned UPSer
Correct me if I'm wrong - I really don't know - when they took the FedEx job, they knew they were taking it as independent contractors, right?
Livin the Dream?
Disillusioned UPSer
Holy Crow, I cannot believe you are lobbing me that softball.
You want to delete the question so nobody sees, or you want me to answer?
some1else
Banned
u were lobbying for unrestricted capitalism no? i know of a group of people who would love to work for 3.40 an hour...
the key difference between the grocery/walmart and ups/fed-ex is walmart was subject to the same organizing rules. which is all we are asking for. we are not asking for fedex to become unionized we are asking that another company in the same exact industry that does the same exact job be subject to the same exact laws and regulation.
I still see a big difference. When UPS lobbied for intra state rights they were making a move that would benefit the consumer. Same with China, we can now offer our service to a whole new group of people.
In the unionization fight against fed ex we will appear to the public to be playing a Tonya Harding role.
rod
Retired 22 years
Livin the Dream?
Disillusioned UPSer
I agree 100%.
You put an ad in the paper for $3.40 / hour. Nobody replies.
You keep raising the price you will pay until you get applicants you can use, whatever that number would be, be it $8.50, $10.50, whatever. It is called supply & demand. It is capatilism. FedEx used it to get their current workers - they offered X for Y job to get done, and they filled the positions, and are getting the job done.
Anyone not happy at FedEx with what they are being paid, they can quit, sell their routes. You don't see that happening much. Huh, go figure.
Think about this for a second - there are what, 90,000 drivers at UPS? Forget the union for a second - In this economy, do you know how long it would take UPS to replace every single driver with someone willing and able to do the work at 1/2 the pay? My guess is maybe 12, 13 minutes, tops.
Livin the Dream?
Disillusioned UPSer
LMAO - think about that - that is so dead-on correct - Instead of becoming the best skater, break the kneecaps of other skaters.
JimJimmyJames
Big Time Feeder Driver
If Fedex Ground isn't doing anything illegal with their contractor model, fine, end of arguement.
But if what they are doing does not jive with the law, UPS has every right to insist that they stop breaking it.
Also, if UPS decides they can no longer compete with Fedex without using a contractor model of their own, than with great initial pain UPS will eventually make the switch, or go out of business.
(Now for the editorial)
And eventually, when we stop creating good paying jobs that allow the average guy to live what we feel is the "American Dream", we can flush this grand experiment we experienced over the last 100 hundred years down the toilet. We can work our 14 hours a day, six days a week, with little or no health care, having just enough for the basics of life, until we are dead or disabled. And we better be damned happy that we are even afforded that opportunity!
What gall the average guy had thinking he should benefit so much from the fruits of his labor?
And, after we, the average shmoe, no longer have the need for delivery services at the level demanded now (we won't have the cash), will the Mr. Burns of this world keep these companies afloat shipping ivory back scratchers back and forth to one another?
But if what they are doing does not jive with the law, UPS has every right to insist that they stop breaking it.
Also, if UPS decides they can no longer compete with Fedex without using a contractor model of their own, than with great initial pain UPS will eventually make the switch, or go out of business.
(Now for the editorial)
And eventually, when we stop creating good paying jobs that allow the average guy to live what we feel is the "American Dream", we can flush this grand experiment we experienced over the last 100 hundred years down the toilet. We can work our 14 hours a day, six days a week, with little or no health care, having just enough for the basics of life, until we are dead or disabled. And we better be damned happy that we are even afforded that opportunity!
What gall the average guy had thinking he should benefit so much from the fruits of his labor?
And, after we, the average shmoe, no longer have the need for delivery services at the level demanded now (we won't have the cash), will the Mr. Burns of this world keep these companies afloat shipping ivory back scratchers back and forth to one another?
I doubt that a day goes by that anybody thinks that as P-Man clearly stated what is happening now is in violation of the law. The IRS has clearly defined guidelines for what is an employee and what is a contractor. P-Man gave those to you earlier. Reading those, what makes you think that FedEx Ground contractors are just that and not employees?
Things were different in the RPS days, the drivers had a lot more power about what they did and didn't deliver. What FedEx Ground driver today can refuse to deliver to an address for a couple of days or a package all together?
Also, as P-Man mentioned, we do use contractors, both in the United States and abroad. The difference here in the states is that they are paid generally per run, their vehicles do not say UPS anywhere on them and unlike the FedEx guys they don't lease their vehicles from UPS. They are used on an as-needed basis when employees are unable to complete those assignments (Generally TL/SCS/Express Critical/LTL Urgent). They are not held accountable to the Policy Book (FedEx contractors are held accountable to their standards) and can end their contracts without financial hardship or having to find somebody else to fulfill it.
Abroad, UPS contracts with companies, generally not individuals. That's a whole different ball-game.
Living the Dream - Answer this - How does the contractor model differ from Sharecropping during the reconstruction? FedEx generally leases the vehicle (land) makes the contractor buy the uniform (seed) lets them use the scanner and other equipment and pays them for a return. There is a reason that this system was eliminated a long time ago . . .
Not LTD, but would like to comment.
My point is not to defend the Fed-Ex business model, but rather to question our (UPS's) position in this case.
Again, we are spending millions of dollars on something that will not make us better or give any better service to our customers. It would seem reasonable for a consumer to come to the conclusion that our goal is to change the competitive balance to the place where we can raise our prices.
Is this not something that the Fed Ex public relations department could have a field day with?
Thank's for clarifying your position sano.
UPS is spending millions of dollars to improve service to our customers.
FedEx is engaged in many areas in predatory pricing that undercuts even their own cost to deliver the service. They are doing this solely to gain market share. One of the reasons that they have been able to continue to do this is because they are illegally operating their Ground division as independent contractors. If they had to pay them a wage, benefits, and pay for the upkeep of the truck, they would not be able to do this.
This is quickly eroding market share from UPS and causing driver layoffs in areas hard hit. Anytime FedEx opens a new center, they engage in this pricing below their operating revenue in order to win business from the competition (us). There is a reason that this too is illegal.
In areas where we cannot match their prices, we are simply cutting routes and sending out fewer drivers. In other areas, we are having to match prices or find other ways to deliver value (very hard in this economy) to match those lower prices to keep the customers we have. This means not as much money to go around for Customer Service calls, a higher SPORH for drivers, fewer preload hours, etc the list goes on.
By bringing attention to these practices, we are able to maintain our own market share and bring a service to a customer while maintaining our own operating revenue.
If FedEx had to change it's model, I would not expect to see a price increase on our services other than the standard 3-5% annual adjusted for inflation rate increase. I would also anticipate on the ground services that we would be priced below FedEx for the same service. At the moment, we are at parity across all zones up to 70#'s where FedEx comes out ahead by a penny or two.
We would be able to put more drivers on road, deliver packages earlier, accommodate more pickup times, spend more time at customer locations, etc. The list goes on for each department.
some1else
Banned
hmm i wonder what that minimum wage thing is for?
btw my dad worked for ups when he was in college as well making around 13 an hour on preload. which inflation adjusted is about 25 dollars. now ups is paying 8.50 for that same job... progress?
UnconTROLLed
perfection
fixed it for you
some1else
Banned
are they making more money today?
UnconTROLLed
perfection
In this economy? no. In the past 30 years overall, profits relative to inflation, just a guess: heck yeah
some1else
Banned
im not that old **********lol.
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