FMLA

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

We had an issue at our center where an employee took an intermittent FMLA day before a holiday and was not paid for the holiday. According to the contract, if the absence before the holiday was mutually agreed upon, then UPS must pay for the holiday. Since the employee received a letter from UPS approving the number of FMLA days for the year, then UPS certainly cannot claim that the FMLA day wasn't agreed upon. Furthermore, federal FMLA law states that an employee using a FMLA day will not loose any benefit that he has earned.The employee in this case filed a grievance, and the company refused to settle. The Union took this issue to the panel, but I haven't heard the result.

The company is right in this situation.

 

[menotyou]

It seems as though the only violation there might be is if the collective bargaining agreement has been violated. OK you stewards out there........................ has the collective bargaining agreement been violated? I'm looking at my contract but I'm not sure where to look, but I'm looking.

Article 16 sect. 6, pgs 43-44 "If the leave is not foreseeable, the employee is to give notice as soon as practical."

Nothing, absolutely nothing, in the contract about calling a certain hotline. I would love to write a rebuttal for a warning letter based on this particular issue.

 

[brownIEman]

Sounds like the company is trying to put some orderly process on what has become a very chaotic situation.

Intermittent FMLA has become a nightmare from an administrative and running the business standpoint. Mostly due to the rampant abuse by people who find no qualms about getting a doctor to sign off (very easily done) and then using it to get days off they do not qualify for in seniority. Just one example, had an employee request a vacation day for a Friday. Too many more senior people had the day off, so the request was denied. The employee had intermittent FMLA for some stomach ailment (employee informed us without being asked). Employee called out that day using FMLA. Was informed by another employee connected with the FMLA employee on facebook that the first employee, according to their own facebook updates, was partying it up in Vegas on that day. Guess Vegas is the place to go for stomach problems.
Have another employee who regularly extends their weekends with Intermittent FMLA. Called out one Monday when we had nearly a 20% call in rate including FMLA and regular sick calls. This is on top of an already full vacation schedule. Called in every double shifter and driver on our lists, and then some. In the mean time, we had sups working to cover these areas. Mr Extra long weekend FMLA brought us a stack of grievances for the sups working when he came back on Tuesday.

These and many other abuses is why UPS is clamping down on this stuff as much as the law allows (which is not much). It makes my blood boil, mostly because these yahoos taint the process for good people who need it and use as it was intended, such as Dizzee.

Dilli, the contract is not really the best place to look on this issue. This is a federal law, which supersedes anything that may be in the contract. The law does state intermittent users must follow call in procedures. UPS gets to decide and can occasionally change those call in procedures. Would seem to me you might have a case to argue if call in procedures are different for FMLA than for other sick calls, but not sure the law specifically says that.

 

[menotyou]

The law specifically states that you can not be discriminated against for using FMLA. If you don't have to call a special number for calling in sick or for being late or anything else of the sort, then it is a discriminatory practice to require FMLA requests be called into the red phone.

As far as abuses, maybe management should look in the mirror.

 

[menotyou]

As for quoting the contract, I was simply showing what the contract states. Federal and state laws supersede anything UPS might have tried to shove in the contract to Cover Their Ass.

 

[brownIEman]

The law specifically states that you can not be discriminated against for using FMLA. If you don't have to call a special number for calling in sick or for being late or anything else of the sort, then it is a discriminatory practice to require FMLA requests be called into the red phone.

As far as abuses, maybe management should look in the mirror.

Yeah, not really sure a special number just for FMLA users will fly as a call in. My understanding of the HRSC line though is that it is just for the initial application for FMLA approval, not a daily call in once the FMLA has been approved. There may be a misunderstanding in Dilli's center. Or it could be mine, not sure.

OK, I will look in the mirror....

Nope, I have not abused FMLA. Thanks for the check though...

 

[menotyou]

Again, does anyone else have to call that number? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? I didn't think so.

 

[brownIEman]

As for quoting the contract, I was simply showing what the contract states. Federal and state laws supersede anything UPS might have tried to shove in the contract to Cover Their Ass.

Wow.

No inflamatory judgemental statement here, no siree.

 

[brownIEman]

Again, does anyone else have to call that number? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? I didn't think so.

No, but if the line is only for people calling to apply for FMLA, and had nothing to do with calling out of work on a daily basis, it could hardly be considered discriminatory.

 

[menotyou]

Is that what we were told by several members that the line is for? Is that what the paper that was sent to a member on here stated? No. It's not. So, you can spin this all you want, but it is a discriminatory practice.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I can certainly see where brownIEman is coming from with the abuses. It is my opinion that some of the abuse has been condoned over the years by management. Not necessarily FMLA, but the constant need for certain drivers to be somewhere else. It has gotten out of hand and gets worse by the day. I also stand by my previous statement that UPS loathes any use of FMLA. I used it for two months after my son was born. It happened to be November and December and I was told that I could not take it then. I made them aware several months in advance, but they fought me until the bitter end. I offered to work preload, go home, come back in and work metro. (This is allowed per FMLA to work adjusted schedule) Of course, they refused, so I just didn't work at all during those two months. I don't know why it has to be so difficult, well, I guess I do, but it is not always the hourly worker's fault.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

The company is right in this situation.

Oddly, I disagree.

 

[dilligaf]

Sounds like the company is trying to put some orderly process on what has become a very chaotic situation.

Intermittent FMLA has become a nightmare from an administrative and running the business standpoint. Mostly due to the rampant abuse by people who find no qualms about getting a doctor to sign off (very easily done) and then using it to get days off they do not qualify for in seniority. Just one example, had an employee request a vacation day for a Friday. Too many more senior people had the day off, so the request was denied. The employee had intermittent FMLA for some stomach ailment (employee informed us without being asked). Employee called out that day using FMLA. Was informed by another employee connected with the FMLA employee on facebook that the first employee, according to their own facebook updates, was partying it up in Vegas on that day. Guess Vegas is the place to go for stomach problems.
Have another employee who regularly extends their weekends with Intermittent FMLA. Called out one Monday when we had nearly a 20% call in rate including FMLA and regular sick calls. This is on top of an already full vacation schedule. Called in every double shifter and driver on our lists, and then some. In the mean time, we had sups working to cover these areas. Mr Extra long weekend FMLA brought us a stack of grievances for the sups working when he came back on Tuesday.

These and many other abuses is why UPS is clamping down on this stuff as much as the law allows (which is not much). It makes my blood boil, mostly because these yahoos taint the process for good people who need it and use as it was intended, such as Dizzee.

Dilli, the contract is not really the best place to look on this issue. This is a federal law, which supersedes anything that may be in the contract. The law does state intermittent users must follow call in procedures. UPS gets to decide and can occasionally change those call in procedures. Would seem to me you might have a case to argue if call in procedures are different for FMLA than for other sick calls, but not sure the law specifically says that.

What I was told was from a lawyer. I will have to investigate what the state law is as far as calling in sick. As far as Federal, it's not discrimination because it's not based on any of the basic criteria (age, gender etc). Maybe there is something within the FMLA laws itself.

 

[menotyou]

I see the abuses, also. But, I see many abuses by both sides. This is a federal issue and UPS has no right to think they are above the law.

 

[menotyou]

What I was told was from a lawyer. I will have to investigate what the state law is as far as calling in sick. As far as Federal, it's not discrimination because it's not based on any of the basic criteria (age, gender etc). Maybe there is something within the FMLA laws itself.

I disagree with that 'Lawyer'. I think it is discriminatory. I don't have to call in to that line to report I'm not coming in because I am on comp. If texan called in sick, he wouldn't have to call a specially designed system.

 

[dilligaf]

This is *ing priceless. I called the number that my sup gave. The call center (not the automated system). They gave me a case number and the correct phone number for the automated system. Called that. Wouldn't accept the case number that I was given. Called the call center back. Different person, took down the same info I gave 2 minutes earlier. She asked to call me back after she did some research. Phone rings.............................










Wait for it.................................................












OH YA My *ing case had been closed. I have to refill out all that paperwork. I have to pay the doctor 25$ A *ing GAIN. They charge every time paperwork has to be filled out. I'm so ****ing pissed I could spit nails right now.

 

[dilligaf]

I disagree with that 'Lawyer'. I think it is discriminatory. I don't have to call in to that line to report I'm not coming in because I am on comp. If texan called in sick, he wouldn't have to call a specially designed system.

I agree with you. I think it is as well. But under the letter of the law this isn't age, gender, race, religion related. I was told that if it violates the collective bargaining agreement then it is illegal.

 

[menotyou]

This is *ing priceless. I called the number that my sup gave. The call center (not the automated system). They gave me a case number and the correct phone number for the automated system. Called that. Wouldn't accept the case number that I was given. Called the call center back. Different person, took down the same info I gave 2 minutes earlier. She asked to call me back after she did some research. Phone rings.............................










Wait for it.................................................












OH YA My *ing case had been closed. I have to refill out all that paperwork. I have to pay the doctor 25$ A *ing GAIN. They charge every time paperwork has to be filled out. I'm so ****ing pissed I could spit nails right now.

You have to pay to do this? That's the biggest pile of poop I've ever heard of.

I'd be calling these people:U.S. Department of Labor -- Contact Us

 

[menotyou]

I agree with you. I think it is as well. But under the letter of the law this isn't age, gender, race, religion related. I was told that if it violates the collective bargaining agreement then it is illegal.

there is nothing in the contract stating you have to call anyone. Just inform/notify. Definitely, nothing about paying $25 over and over again!

 

[dilligaf]

You have to pay to do this? That's the biggest pile of poop I've ever heard of.

I'd be calling these people:U.S. Department of Labor -- Contact Us

I'm not done yet, not by a long shot.....................................