FMLA

Applying once per calendar year can actually work to the employee's advantage. That way the employee, if it is his/her desire, can use up all their vacation leave time before applying for the FLMA. For example, to maximize the number of days that I could use to help out my ill mother, I would sign up for all of my vacations/personals/sick days before June. Then I would sign up for the FMLA in June, after I had used up all of my leave time. Otherwise, UPS would take all of my leave time (other than one week that I could reserve) and apply the leave time toward the FMLA days.

Or, apply for FMLA in Jan and dont use any days until all your vacation is gone. And then wonder why the company is cracking down.
 

tardus

Well-Known Member
Or, apply for FMLA in Jan and dont use any days until all your vacation is gone. And then wonder why the company is cracking down.
There is nothing wrong with maximizing the number of days that you have to care for your sick loved ones. I used every one of my leave days and FMLA days to care for my sick mother. By using the leave time first, you can effectively double the number of days that you have to care for your loved one.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Employees must notify UPS of the anticipated timing and duration of the leave. Employees must comply with UPS’s call-in procedures and must clearly inform UPS that the requested absence is for a reason for which FMLA leave was previously taken or certified."

Seems pretty reasonable to me. In a company with thousands of employees approved, who on any one day can use intermittent FMLA, being asked to call an automated number to notify the company of an excused absence is not discriminatory or an undue burden on anyone. So, in as few words as possible, GROW UP!.

UPS sets the call-in procedure. Follow it. It would be different if they required 15 different steps and an hour long process but that's not the case here now is it. You have to pick your battles and this is just not one of them.

I would, even if not required to, call my boss and let him know as soon as possible if I was going to be out that day also. He's just a guy with a family, trying to earn a living just like me. Now in the past I've worked for some real pricks and I can't say that I haven't been as big a pain in the ass as I could be. But in the long run, It's your fellow employees who are most likely to suffer while the boss is in the office with his feet up on the desk. Especially the ones that are the biggest jerks of all.

So if you need a day take it. Call-in. It's not that hard. Tell me, would it bet discriminatory if they had you call a different number at the center and your supervisor answered that one and it was only for FMLA. So he would be sure to get the message and code it properly. Of course it wouldn't. So silly.,
Ya, I suppose it seems pretty reasonable on the surface, but how reasonable is it that one can be terminated for a no call/no show because they didn't call this automated system? Regardless if the sup knows or not? That's what I was told. This system is working independently of the centers. What if there is a system failure? What if an emergency arose and one just flat forgot to call? Is it reasonable that one should be fired for a no call/no show because of an emergency? Why do they have to add unnecessary stress to an already stressful situation?
 
The law states :

If leave is foreseeable less than 30 days in advance, the employee must provide notice as soon as practicable –generally, either the same or next business day. When the need for leave is not foreseeable, the employee must provide notice to the employer as soon as practicable under the facts and circumstances of the particular case. Absent unusual circumstances, employees must comply with the employer’s usual and customary notice and procedural requirements for requesting leave.

The law supersedes their new guidelines for reporting to the automated line as well as any threat of not calling being a no call no show. The fact that it violates the law as well as our contract should at least remove any threat of disciplinary action tied to this new call in procedure.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
The law states :

If leave is foreseeable less than 30 days in advance, the employee must provide notice as soon as practicable –generally, either the same or next business day. When the need for leave is not foreseeable, the employee must provide notice to the employer as soon as practicable under the facts and circumstances of the particular case. Absent unusual circumstances, employees must comply with the employer’s usual and customary notice and procedural requirements for requesting leave.

The law supersedes their new guidelines for reporting to the automated line as well as any threat of not calling being a no call no show. The fact that it violates the law as well as our contract should at least remove any threat of disciplinary action tied to this new call in procedure.

Actually, the law supports the guidelines for reporting to the automated line if the automated line is now the companies' "usual and customary notice and procedural requirements for requesting leave", does it not?
Notice that the law says requirements for requesting leave, not calling out sick, these do not have to be the same procedure apparantly.
 
Actually, the law supports the guidelines for reporting to the automated line if the automated line is now the companies' "usual and customary notice and procedural requirements for requesting leave", does it not?
Notice that the law says requirements for requesting leave, not calling out sick, these do not have to be the same procedure apparently.

But, the law does NOT support the threat given to at least one person in this thread of "if you don't call the line before the FMLA day then it's a no call no show". As we've discussed one notifies the company "as soon as practicable". That might be the day before, before one's start time, during that day, or the day after. Their is no guidelines on what might befall someone, all are different. As long as one makes a good faith attempt to notify the company "as soon as practicable" be it the automated line or their immediate management team ( the ones who'll be affected the most by the absence) then any threats of discipline are null and void as well as a violation of the law as well as both grievable as well as foundation for a official complaint with the proper governing bodies. I can tell you personally when the DOL has to stick their nose in the company's business in this regard the threats stop real quick.

Also ,as you've said, this is not the call in policy for calling out sick or ANY other call in makes it discriminatory. Oh, it needs to be done so UPS can keep track of one's FMLA time? How does it manage to handle keeping track of anything else? If calling the immediate management team is good enough for the other reasons then it's good enough in this one. If the immediate management team need a third party to help them keep track then THEY can forward the info to the HRSC office themselves.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Not to mention, 'regular' no call-no show's aren't under the same threat. They have three days before they are given the same discipline. Discriminatory. Period. It is illegal and it violates the contract. Done and done.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Agreed, any such termination would never stand up.

Gotta love the "as soon as practical" in this law. Lovely little loop hole that is interpreted by so many as "Whenever I damn well feel like it". It is what it is.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Agreed, any such termination would never stand up.

Gotta love the "as soon as practical" in this law. Lovely little loop hole that is interpreted by so many as "Whenever I damn well feel like it". It is what it is.
I hate those 'grey' areas! But, I admit, I used them to my advantage when I was a steward. ;)
 
Agreed, any such termination would never stand up.

Gotta love the "as soon as practical" in this law. Lovely little loop hole that is interpreted by so many as "Whenever I damn well feel like it". It is what it is.

Or interpreted by management as psychically knowing in the future. Your interpretation of "when I damn well feel like it" might be different than the person at the hospital who know where their real priorities are. Termination would never stand up? Believe me I'll have managements ass the minute they imply disciplinary action. It will never get as far as the act of termination.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Or interpreted by management as psychically knowing in the future. Your interpretation of "when I damn well feel like it" might be different than the person at the hospital who know where their real priorities are. Termination would never stand up? Believe me I'll have managements ass the minute they imply disciplinary action. It will never get as far as the act of termination.

Nope, I assure my interpretation would be in line with the employee at the hospital.
The guy who calls in 3 hours after the shift is OVER, cause he took his daughter to a Dr. appointment he has had on the books for 3 weeks. Yeah, I think that guy should have been able to see the future, seeing as he had the future written down on his calander at home. But of course you would not say boo to that guy would you? Nope you would be too busy going after my ass cause I am in management.
And dont even get me started on the guy that went to Vegas to treat his stomach problems. I guess if you are on a heater, it would be impracticle to expect you to leave to call out.
 
Nope, I assure my interpretation would be in line with the employee at the hospital.
The guy who calls in 3 hours after the shift is OVER, cause he took his daughter to a Dr. appointment he has had on the books for 3 weeks. Yeah, I think that guy should have been able to see the future, seeing as he had the future written down on his calander at home. But of course you would not say boo to that guy would you? Nope you would be too busy going after my ass cause I am in management.
And dont even get me started on the guy that went to Vegas to treat his stomach problems. I guess if you are on a heater, it would be impracticle to expect you to leave to call out.

No , actually I would agree on Mr. 3 weeks. Mr. Vegas? Take action. Tell me I face disciplinary action because I called only you and not the automated supervisor replacement they just set up. Take your best shot. I won't be a nitpicker that hides behind the DOL's skirt but I will not be threatened either. I've taken the time to know what the law is and my rights under it. Who ever set up the automated phone line but more importantly the sup who thinks he can make threats because of it should have done the same.

And do you think the same company who goads the sup into such action stands behind them when it goes bad? They couldn't push him in front of the bus any faster.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
No , actually I would agree on Mr. 3 weeks. Mr. Vegas? Take action. Tell me I face disciplinary action because I called only you and not the automated supervisor replacement they just set up. Take your best shot. I won't be a nitpicker that hides behind the DOL's skirt but I will not be threatened either. I've taken the time to know what the law is and my rights under it. Who ever set up the automated phone line but more importantly the sup who thinks he can make threats because of it should have done the same.

And do you think the same company who goads the sup into such action stands behind them when it goes bad? They couldn't push him in front of the bus any faster.

There is no action I can legally take. How about you take action. Talk to the idiot, he is your brother, he is in your union. Pull him asside and let him know he is soiling a law that good people like Dizzee actually need, and for good reasons. Let him know he is helping to give his union brothers a bad name and he should knock it off.
 

ajblakejr

Age quod agis
Nope, I assure my interpretation would be in line with the employee at the hospital.
The guy who calls in 3 hours after the shift is OVER, cause he took his daughter to a Dr. appointment he has had on the books for 3 weeks. Yeah, I think that guy should have been able to see the future, seeing as he had the future written down on his calander at home. But of course you would not say boo to that guy would you? Nope you would be too busy going after my ass cause I am in management.
And dont even get me started on the guy that went to Vegas to treat his stomach problems. I guess if you are on a heater, it would be impracticle to expect you to leave to call out.

I disagree with this statement.
Medicine is not an exact science.
Conditions change and life moves in a forward direction.

I will give you a couple of "WHAT IF's".
What if the medical team determines this appointment moved from routine appointment to that discussing "endlife care" for his daughter.
What if the mother was sick and could not make the appointment...
What if he started feeling guilt because he missed appointments...
What if his daughter was throwing tantrum's and needed her daddy...
What if the doctor called and said that he needs to see mom and dad...

I don't want an employee working when the body is on the job but the mind is at the appointment.
 
There is no action I can legally take. How about you take action. Talk to the idiot, he is your brother, he is in your union. Pull him asside and let him know he is soiling a law that good people like Dizzee actually need, and for good reasons. Let him know he is helping to give his union brothers a bad name and he should knock it off.
There has been people walked for fraudulent FMLA use. Two out of my building. Do your work if you can prove it and bounce him if you can. His actions, if your claims are true, eliminate any brotherhood I have for him.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I disagree with this statement.
Medicine is not an exact science.
Conditions change and life moves in a forward direction.

I will give you a couple of "WHAT IF's".
What if the medical team determines this appointment moved from routine appointment to that discussing "endlife care" for his daughter.
What if the mother was sick and could not make the appointment...
What if he started feeling guilt because he missed appointments...
What if his daughter was throwing tantrum's and needed her daddy...
What if the doctor called and said that he needs to see mom and dad...

I don't want an employee working when the body is on the job but the mind is at the appointment.

I don't agree with FMLA abusers, but don't feel it's my place to intervene as earlier suggested.
I think the real disconnect between managers like brownIEman and hourly employees like ourselves is contained within the job.
Managers subject themselves to a life of servitutude to a greater degree than we do as unionized hourly employees.
Their duties and hours of service are not defined, and in the process they become irritated when we do not endure these same lack of parameters.
I recently had the occasion to call off for a day, for only the second time in a year and a half.
My supe informed me when I made the call that he he couldn't give me the day off.
It was hard not to laugh, when I heard the anger in his voice, as I told him I wasn't asking and refused to tell him why I wasn't coming in.
In the end, I don't make the rules and neither do any of the managers I know by name.
Conversely, I don't break the rules and neither do....
 
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