FMLA

[brownIEman]

I disagree with this statement.
Medicine is not an exact science.
Conditions change and life moves in a forward direction.

I will give you a couple of "WHAT IF's".
What if the medical team determines this appointment moved from routine appointment to that discussing "endlife care" for his daughter.
What if the mother was sick and could not make the appointment...
What if he started feeling guilt because he missed appointments...
What if his daughter was throwing tantrum's and needed her daddy...
What if the doctor called and said that he needs to see mom and dad...

I don't want an employee working when the body is on the job but the mind is at the appointment.

How would any of those what ifs prevent an employee who was planning to go to an appointment under FMLA from letting me know AHEAD of time? He knew for 3 weeks. He has FMLA, federal law protected right to take the time of. Just let me know so I have some shot at actually doing my work and plan my operation. What possible part of impractacal to notify would that be? Yet I cannot prove it was not, so there is no acountability I can do. Nor can I effectively plan my operation. Catch 22.

 

[brownIEman]

I don't agree with FMLA abusers, but don't feel it's my place to intervene as earlier suggested.
I think the real disconnect between managers like brownIEman and hourly employees like ourselves is contained within the job.
Managers subject themselves to a life of servitutude to a greater degree than we do as unionized hourly employees.
Their duties and hours of service are not defined, and in the process they become irritated when we do not endure these same lack of parameters.
I recently had the occasion to call off for a day, for only the second time in a year and a half.
My supe informed me when I made the call that he he couldn't give me the day off.
It was hard not to laugh, when I heard the anger in his voice, as I told him I wasn't asking and refused to tell him why I wasn't coming in.
In the end, I don't make the rules and neither do any of the managers I know by name.
Conversely, I don't break the rules and neither do....

We subject ourselves to a greater degree of servitude, or just hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct, depending on your interpretation...

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

How would any of those what ifs prevent an employee who was planning to go to an appointment under FMLA from letting me know AHEAD of time? He knew for 3 weeks. He has FMLA, federal law protected right to take the time of. Just let me know so I have some shot at actually doing my work and plan my operation. What possible part of impractacal to notify would that be? Yet I cannot prove it was not, so there is no acountability I can do. Nor can I effectively plan my operation. Catch 22.

aj has a point--perhaps the driver was not planning on going to the appt but something happened that changed his plans.

You make some very good points and I appreciate your candor.

 

[brownIEman]

There has been people walked for fraudulent FMLA use. Two out of my building. Do your work if you can prove it and bounce him if you can. His actions, if your claims are true, eliminate any brotherhood I have for him.

I get that. If I could prove it, I would. Facebook does not work aparantly (tried it). Then I could walk someone out for fraud. That would be a failure on my part as a member of management, and a failure on your part as a steward and union member. Why could we not work together to instead change the behavior?

We have a couple old school stewards who take the collective part of collective bargaining seriously. Not just in fighting for workers rights, but also in providing a fair days work. They would have a heart to heart with these knuckle heads and try to get them to pull their weight.
All the newer stewards seem to be in your line of thinking. Hey, he may be in the union, but if he is being a a-hole and using loop holes to avoid working, well, that is your problem management, he is no brother of mine anymore. As far as giving a fair days work, there is no collective, it is every man for himself.

 

[ajblakejr]

How would any of those what ifs prevent an employee who was planning to go to an appointment under FMLA from letting me know AHEAD of time? He knew for 3 weeks. He has FMLA, federal law protected right to take the time of. Just let me know so I have some shot at actually doing my work and plan my operation. What possible part of impractacal to notify would that be? Yet I cannot prove it was not, so there is no acountability I can do. Nor can I effectively plan my operation. Catch 22.

Okay, how would you plan the day any different if he would have come to you and said....

Three weeks from now, we have an appointment with the doctor. At this point, my wife and I feel this is a rountine appointment and I will be at work. However, just in case, my daughter's condition take a turn for the worse and the doctor needs to see both of us, I will attend the appointment. So, boss, on this date, I will be either here or with my wife at the appointment.

 

[brownIEman]

Okay, how would you plan the day any different if he would have come to you and said....

Three weeks from now, we have an appointment with the doctor. At this point, my wife and I feel this is a rountine appointment and I will be at work. However, just in case, my daughter's condition take a turn for the worse and the doctor needs to see both of us, I will attend the appointment. So, boss, on this date, I will be either here or with my wife at the appointment.

Had the employee in question done this, I would have encouraged them to go to the apointment and offered to pay out an option day for the day or not as they wanted. Then I would put in my staffing plan for that day that I needed to cover his work. If the employee said no, he wanted to plan on being in that day and wanted to work, I would have planned them to cover their own work. I would also have reminded them to call me at least an hour prior to sort start time if the plan changed. I would also make myself a note to check in with them again the day prior to the apointment and again remind them to call me if the plan changed. I would also try to gauge the likely hood that they would show up based on past experience with them and possibly make a plan to be in a staffing position to cover their work anyway if I thought it likely they would not be in.
There is a lot that I can do to try and be prepared for them not to show up if I know that is a possibility long before their start time arrives and they do not.

 

[ajblakejr]

Had the employee in question done this, I would have encouraged them to go to the apointment and offered to pay out an option day for the day or not as they wanted. Then I would put in my staffing plan for that day that I needed to cover his work. If the employee said no, he wanted to plan on being in that day and wanted to work, I would have planned them to cover their own work. I would also have reminded them to call me at least an hour prior to sort start time if the plan changed. I would also make myself a note to check in with them again the day prior to the apointment and again remind them to call me if the plan changed. I would also try to gauge the likely hood that they would show up based on past experience with them and possibly make a plan to be in a staffing position to cover their work anyway if I thought it likely they would not be in.
There is a lot that I can do to try and be prepared for them not to show up if I know that is a possibility long before their start time arrives and they do not.

This is a great response.

I don't know you, work for you or with you.
I hope your employees know that you are open to this type of dialogue.
I also hope you, time to time, ask how it is going...

 

[Bubblehead]

We subject ourselves to a greater degree of servitude, or just hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct, depending on your interpretation...

In regards to attendance most assuredly; in reference to everything else, few and far between.
I will acquiesce to the fact that you, at the very least, talk the talk.

 

[cachsux]

This thread was started to discuss the latest issue the company has cooked up regarding FMLA. I'm not looking to start an ongoing fight with BIe especially when I recognize and actually agree with a majority of his points. I know how I handle my FM LA and I'm sure he and I would have no problem. I also recognize that he would have problems with some. FMLA user should at least attempt to make as few ripples in taking care of their needs but the company needs to recognize there are times it is completely out of our hands.

 

[Bubblehead]

This thread was started to discuss the latest issue the company has cooked up regarding FMLA. I'm not looking to start an ongoing fight with BIe especially when I recognize and actually agree with a majority of his points. I know how I handle my FM LA and I'm sure he and I would have no problem. I also recognize that he would have problems with some. FMLA user should at least attempt to make as few ripples in taking care of their needs but the company needs to recognize there are times it is completely out of our hands.

I don't want to fight with him/her either.
His posts are poignant and concise.
I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't work in my building.

 

[menotyou]

I don't want to fight with him/her either.
His posts are poignant and concise.
I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't work in my building.

Agreed.

 

[brownmonster]

This thread was started to discuss the latest issue the company has cooked up regarding FMLA. I'm not looking to start an ongoing fight with BIe especially when I recognize and actually agree with a majority of his points. I know how I handle my FM LA and I'm sure he and I would have no problem. I also recognize that he would have problems with some. FMLA user should at least attempt to make as few ripples in taking care of their needs but the company needs to recognize there are times it is completely out of our hands.

Too often employees want to make things difficult as possible on mgmnt and in turn mgmnt will not cooperate with said employee. There are ways to handle situations that are non-combative much like IE guy pointed out. I've had hundreds of Supes and Managers in my career and no matter how they were perceived by hourlies I've found the majority to be cooperative and flexible if given the chance. Knuckleheads are spread out evenly between mgmnt and employee. The rest of us are just trying to make it to the end.

 

[menotyou]

Those ones that aren't so cooperative no matter how much you try all end up at a building somewhere. Much like at mine, which is called the 'Black Hole' inn the district. Because of the worthlessness they have sent to my building, no one else-I am talking management- wants to come here. Not because of the hourlies, either. We are considered saints for dealing with the management we have been dealt over the years, and for tolerating our dispatcher all these years. These are comments I have heard with my own ears coming from some whom are paid way more than we are.

 

[cachsux]

Got my letter today. Called and spoke to a rep at the HRSC number specifically about the paragraph pertaining to reporting if you are taking a day off and the number of hours you NORMALLY work. I pointed out that it is impossible to figure ...as some I work 8, some 11. The rep said he had an answer. He said that they are averaging you hours over the last 13 weeks to come up with a number that will be used for an average day. When I pointed out that under the contract we are only gauraunteed 8 hours per day therefore the amount of hours that should be averaged is 8 hours ,the rep vapor locked and had to go to his mgr for the answer. He came back and said he was told to refer me to my HR mgmt team. I asked him,based on an earlier statement by him about "he being unable to acsess the UPS program on his system" if he was a 3rd party office contracted to handle this for UPS. He said that ,no, they were UPS employees and this policy was written by mgmt. No surprise.

So tonight I will go in a bit early and go to HR to point out the "hours" discrepancy in the policy and see what they say. I'll also ask why no other form of call in employee has to use such a system. Should be interesting. I'll also snag my steward and get him up to speed and based on that may file a grievance. A call to the DOL will come tomorrow.

 

[dilligaf]

I disagree with this statement.
Medicine is not an exact science.
Conditions change and life moves in a forward direction.

I will give you a couple of "WHAT IF's".
What if the medical team determines this appointment moved from routine appointment to that discussing "endlife care" for his daughter.
What if the mother was sick and could not make the appointment...
What if he started feeling guilt because he missed appointments...
What if his daughter was throwing tantrum's and needed her daddy...
What if the doctor called and said that he needs to see mom and dad...

I don't want an employee working when the body is on the job but the mind is at the appointment.

A couple of years ago I went through a rough patch. Long story but the jist is that I told my OR I needed sometime to get my head back together. He gave me a week off. Disability. No questions asked. And no return to work release which he could have easily insisted on. I was in no shape to be able to do my work safely and coherently.


I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[dilligaf]

Had the employee in question done this, I would have encouraged them to go to the apointment and offered to pay out an option day for the day or not as they wanted. Then I would put in my staffing plan for that day that I needed to cover his work. If the employee said no, he wanted to plan on being in that day and wanted to work, I would have planned them to cover their own work. I would also have reminded them to call me at least an hour prior to sort start time if the plan changed. I would also make myself a note to check in with them again the day prior to the apointment and again remind them to call me if the plan changed. I would also try to gauge the likely hood that they would show up based on past experience with them and possibly make a plan to be in a staffing position to cover their work anyway if I thought it likely they would not be in.
There is a lot that I can do to try and be prepared for them not to show up if I know that is a possibility long before their start time arrives and they do not.

I get your frustration and understand it. In my center we have a couple of drivers that have FMLA. I am one. I look at it as you do and agree with you. I let my sup know ahead of time if it is at all possible. Hell, I took yesterday off and I have the 27th off for FMLA. My sup knew about these days weeks ago. We have one driver (back injury years ago) who does not do this (at least as much as possible). The driver will get slammed one day and be off the next on FMLA. Happens all the time. Is it right or wrong is not for me to judge. Part of me says yes and part says no.

If the dispatch was more fairly done, then maybe that driver wouldn't have to take as much FMLA.

 

[menotyou]

I get your frustration and understand it. In my center we have a couple of drivers that have FMLA. I am one. I look at it as you do and agree with you. I let my sup know ahead of time if it is at all possible. Hell, I took yesterday off and I have the 27th off for FMLA. My sup knew about these days weeks ago. We have one driver (back injury years ago) who does not do this (at least as much as possible). The driver will get slammed one day and be off the next on FMLA. Happens all the time. Is it right or wrong is not for me to judge. Part of me says yes and part says no.

If the dispatch was more fairly done, then maybe that driver wouldn't have to take as much FMLA.

Ain't that the truth!!!

 

[over9five]

If the dispatch was more fairly done, then maybe that driver wouldn't have to take as much FMLA.

+100

 

[Logb17]

I had a huge headache trying to get my fmla for my son being born. Wanted to get everything done 30 days prior. Informed management I needed fmla forms to fill out. They asked how much time I wanted. The center manager seemed annoyed I wanted 4 weeks. So they print out the forms. I have my wife take the forms to her doc to fill out and I fill out the rest. Turn them in 2 days later, then I get them back 3 days after that saying "we switched everything the day you turned these in to UPSERS.com. You will have to redo all of this online." So I get online finally find out you have to call HRSC and set it up. Then their email doesn't work for 4 days. So finally get everything filled out AGAIN and faxed in.

As for calling in. HRSC just told me to follow normal call in process when he is born. I didn't even have to call in because my wife's water broke right before my pick ups. They had someone come out and finish my route. Sup just said "so ill see you in 4 weeks from tomorrow, congrats!"

Funny thing, ill be returning on a friday as it worked out. Ease back into it!

 

[cachsux]

I had a huge headache trying to get my fmla for my son being born. Wanted to get everything done 30 days prior. Informed management I needed fmla forms to fill out. They asked how much time I wanted. The center manager seemed annoyed I wanted 4 weeks. So they print out the forms. I have my wife take the forms to her doc to fill out and I fill out the rest. Turn them in 2 days later, then I get them back 3 days after that saying "we switched everything the day you turned these in to UPSERS.com. You will have to redo all of this online." So I get online finally find out you have to call HRSC and set it up. Then their email doesn't work for 4 days. So finally get everything filled out AGAIN and faxed in.

As for calling in. HRSC just told me to follow normal call in process when he is born. I didn't even have to call in because my wife's water broke right before my pick ups. They had someone come out and finish my route. Sup just said "so ill see you in 4 weeks from tomorrow, congrats!"

Funny thing, ill be returning on a friday as it worked out. Ease back into it!

You should, and have the opportunity to, switch your FMLA to INTERMITTENT so that you can help out if needed during the rest of the year for Dr appts,etc.

Congrats on the baby.