For the 'Vote NO On Everything' crowd...what would you call a good contract?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by iruhnman630, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. iruhnman630

    iruhnman630 Active Member

    What do you want to see presented to you for a contract proposal to earn your 'yes' vote?
  2. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    Pretty much status quo. Keep all benefits as is. Part time start pay bumped to $10 and inflation raises for full timers. Aka around $1 an hour per year.

    That's it. They have my vote with that.
  3. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Id say as long as the company is turning a profit then we shouldnt be asked for concessions..... they make money,,,, we benefit....
  4. Evil

    Evil Active Member

    Considering the fact that every contract gets worse, I don't think we can get worse than what we have now. If the union actually succeeds in extending the crap of a contract we currently have, with the vague language and even the crappy split raises we got the past 6 years; I would probably call it a victory.

    That's how apathetic I feel about hall and Hoffa. Especially after hall ate every word he said at every rally. Pretty pathetic that out of 235,000 teamsters we barely collected over 50,000 signatures for the "fair contract" petition. This clearly shows how lazy the majority of our overpaid fat business agents and organizers are.
  5. balland chain

    balland chain Member

    I agree, with a few exceptions, let us choose (if we are stuck with the central states insurance) between Central States and any other company for our insurance,, a slight pension increase would be nice as well since I think we receive the lowest pension payment throughout UPS..language concerning the harassment (wont happen) a raise for all FT and PT, bring back the safe driving awards, they can keep the turkey ! I would be happy with just two, the insurance issue and the pension issue..
  6. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Being that the premise is they vote "No" on "EVERYTHING", seems to me no such contract proposal exists that they would vote yes for.
  7. hyena

    hyena I shut down BC

    Why is the bumping up of part time starting wages such an issue? Please explain this to me!
  8. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I have 26 years in with this company, and your statement about "every contract gets worse" is a load of crap. When I started, there was no 9.5 language at all. When I started, we didnt have 8 hr requests. When I started, my hourly wage was half of what it is today and pension contributions were less than a third of what they are today. When I started, there was no penalty pay for the company's refusal to correct payroll errors or pay grievance settlements in a timely manner.

    Blaming "overpaid fat Business Agents and organizers" for failing to collect more than 50,000 signatures on a petition is also a steaming load of crap. How many of those 235,000 Teamsters can even be counted on to show up at a union meeting or to vote on a contract offer in the first place? Do you really think that the number of signatures on a petition will have any meaningful effect on the manner in which the company conducts its contract negotiations? Any work group can vote its Business Agent out of office if that group feels that he isnt doing his job adequately, so who really is to blame when a BA or an organizer isnt earning his pay?
  9. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    A "YES" vote is simple. First, for full timers, UPS must maintain our health care benefits as they are today. No changes. IF the company was in the red quarter after quarter, then we would be having a different conversation. Next, as for full time wages, I say a five year contract is worth 1.85 cents an hour spread over 5 years, then after that, a $2000.00 bonus for every full timer in lieu of future wage increases. ( a cap on full time at 35.00 an hour straight time) Next, less SUREPOST pkgs leaving the system. Every 250 pieces sent to the postal service is ONE PACKAGE CAR removed from service. Its simple math. Next, restrictions on the use of technological equiptment for discipline. So far, the programs UPS implemented have been used for DISCIPLINE and NOT for safety despite being sold that way to us in 2008. Next, NO more vague language about 9.5 hours. Specific requirements that UPS must meet in order to reduce excessive overtime. Merely sending a case to panels or arbitrations that take months doesn't solve the problem and UPS is gladly paying the penalty vs. actually cutting hours. Next, Specific language about bidding for package routes, elimination of routes, bid looping, and senior driver protections in a loop. Next, an elimination of hourly personnel doing management work in safety IE observations and reports being filled out. The last idiot in my center to do one pi$$ed me off and I filed a charge against him with our local executive officers for violating our bylaws. That same day after being served with notice, he took his pkg car out and got into an accident on route. Management work is NOT to be done by hourlies. Next, inflationary increases to health and welfare programs ( pensions and such) Next, increasing part time minimum wages to 10 bucks and giving back the dollar skill rate. Wages for part time should be capped by classification. A reduction in seniority time for part timers from 36 months back to 24 months. THIS was a MAJOR concession to the company in the last contract despite SOBERS claim that it was better. All other issues are minor and settled already. Supplementals and riders can be negotiated by the locals. FOR ME, so far, its a NO VOTE for the current proposals being discussed. ITs a NO BRAINER.
  10. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    I hope your joking. If not its because in the last 30 years or so part time starting wage has increased a total of 50 cents per hour. Now many states minimum wage is more than ups starting wage.
  11. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    Uh you can cap my pay when u also cap the CEO pay along with everyone else in the company. Now I understand we don't want to price ourselves out of the business. As long as we are raking in billions the only way I would ever consider a wage freeze would be for true profit sharing. Not bonuses. First a $2000 bonus isn't much for a full timer. Also a bonus doesn't add on itself year after year. At the end of a 7 year contract that 2k won't buy u near as much as it did in the first year.

    edit. Just to throw some numbers out there. Take a 50 cent raise every year for a 7 year contract. That 2k bonus would be over a 4k pay cut compared to what you would make in year 7 with just a 50 cent raise.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  12. wilberforce15

    wilberforce15 Member

    Assuming the starting rate 30 years ago was $8.00 (I don't really know what it was). Then, adjusted for inflation:

    30 years ago, the starting rate was more than 235% of what new guys make today.

    You could bump starting pay to $15/hr today, and it would still be a 20% pay-cut compared to 30 years ago.

    You could double the current starting rate (to $17/hr), and it would be still be down 10% compared to 30 years ago.

    I could go on, and rephrase the same numbers to get across the problem. But I trust you get the idea.

    Simply put: $8.00 from 30 years ago is worth $18.75 today.

    I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again, if you've been here more than ten years and feel the need to tell a new guy "hey, I was in your shoes, once" - then don't. You weren't.

  13. gobble14

    gobble14 New Member

    Gobble this. Its not always about the part timers. Go full time if you can if you cant then your .... Out of luck
  14. wilberforce15

    wilberforce15 Member

    That message has been sent loud and clear. And it's been received.

    The problem is that message is the wrong one. Everything y'all say (rightly) about corporate greed is also what PTers say about FTers. That's from those PTers who care.

    You all really should stop wondering why PT union membership and activity is so low. You take two out of every three of the dollars they were getting, and then wonder why they don't come over for tea and brotherhood. For those who do believe in the union (despite what it has done to them), we're busy working our third jobs during the union meetings. You can't kick a guy in the nuts and then yell at him for not acting like a brother. You treat him like a brother, and then you get a brother.

    Experienced UPSers need to take new guys in, show them the ropes, and give them a reasonable place to start from. It's amazing what you'll get in return if you do. It's also easy to know what you'll get if you don't - and that's what you're getting now - turnover, no union involvement, bitterness, and busted boxes in your poorly-loaded package car.

    If we end up striking, then I'm sure the majority of people here will be outraged when part-timers cross the line to get their $10.00, instead of sitting in the sun so you can rip them off again.
  15. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    brownslave said it pretty well. with the company making billions in profits every 3 months, there is no reason to even think about making concessions.

    also, do you think it would be unfair for all empoyees, part time and full time to share in the wealth. even mangers should benefit. everyone of us had something to do with the profits this company enjoys.

    surepost is the same as subcontracting. should be eliminated.

    i think partimers should get at least $12 an hr to start. they should get at least $18 an hr after 2 years. full timers should get a dollar raise minimum a year.

    health care should not change. benefits and pensions should increase on scale similar to profits. ( better than inflation )

    what really gets me is that we hourlies are expected to follow all these rules or face discipline up to and including discharge but the same standard is not held to management. they skirt all around or downright ignore the contract at every turn without consequence.

    "Leadership Reflects Attitude"
  16. andyb03

    andyb03 New Member

    It's never been about part timers.
  17. wgf46

    wgf46 Member

    Part Timers and Full Timers work their :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: off. As a part timer I would be satisfied with making half the wage scale as a full time employee and keep my same benefits. The package car drivers work hard day in and day out but I will say this, if you haven't loaded on preload in the last 5 years, you might be surprised at the volume and harassment that goes on with preload. With better starting wages and keeping benefits the same for part time, you'll keep good help and attract good help. Last contract, who ever decided on the 12 month and 18 month benefit start up was crazy !!!!!!
  18. hyena

    hyena I shut down BC

    Iguess I was just wondering because like all the other people in the last 30 yrs I started at this wage. My incentive for sticking around was the health insurance and 32 dollars an hour. The high turnover rate for partimers helps the company save money on insurance. I dont know I kinda look at as weeding people out. The people that stay and bust their ass are the ones who should be rewarded. Idk just my opinion
  19. wilberforce15

    wilberforce15 Member

    You didn't start at this wage.

    If you were there in the 80's, you started at 16-19/hr. If you started in the 90's, then it was $12-15/hr. Only people hired after 2000 started at anything like the 8.50 of today.

    Hazing gets more extreme the longer it goes, as each group puffs up what they think they went through. You think it's fine because people are getting weeded out at half the wage you got, or less.

    By the way, these people who leave after a year or two or three when they can find a better job? They weren't ants to be :censored2: on. They were supposed to be brothers, and the next generation who will help pay for your pension.

    *When I say 'you,' I mean it in the general sense, not you personally.

  20. wgf46

    wgf46 Member

    I've stuck it out, 12 / 18 months for the benefits. Works both ways, more might stick it out longer maybe 90 days for benefits. 90 days is a good test to see if they can cut the work load on preload or reload.

    Bottom line, UPS $4,300,000,000 BBBBIIILLLIIIOOONNN in a bad economy and you want to decrease the compensation and benefits for those that create the majority of that profit while increasing to the minority. CEO's gets extra millions in compensation. Nothing against Mr. Davis, I'm sure he does an excellent job, but I doubt he worries about copays or deductibles.