Fred Z to endorse the L-396 Richard G Slate

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Evil, Aug 31, 2014.

  1. Evil

    Evil Active Member

    Fred Z will be visiting Southern California in the coming weeks just before the Local 396 nominations. It is said that he will endorse the candidacy of Richard G against Ron H.

    The chances of challengers winning in Southern California have always been very slim. But 396 represents only two crafts (sanitation and UPS). Sanitation workers for long have been unhappy with Ron H and the regressive contracts he's negotiated. Isidro Valdivia who is well known and respected for his activism in Waste Management after leading an $87 lawsuit against them in 2007 is believed to be running on the G Slate.

    But UPS is even now more angered about the worse contract in UPS history, especially the new healthcare they were dealt. The UPS members of 396 in majority are putting blame on Ron H and are saying they are willing to give G a chance. These are the same people that three years ago did not take his candidacy very serious. Last year Local 396 voted down the contract 1742 votes to 463. That's better than 4 to 1. If those No votes go to the challenging slate, H will be in big trouble.

    Ron H, his executive board and business agents are now desperately saying anything to save their jobs. H and company are laying blame on Hoffa and hall for their humiliating defeat at the negotiating table. They have gone as far as saying that they are no longer supporting Hoffa, even though H himself serves as International Trustee in Hoffa's Executive Board.

    These are some exiting times at 396 and a H defeat would clearly show how angered UPS Teamsters are with this contract.
     
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  2. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Too bad the membership wont endorse him. For FRED, its a waste of time.

    Heck, even Sal Z. abandoned the G project.

    Ron will win, allbeit, the least of two evils.

    For G, hopefully, this is his last trip down the isle.

    TOS.
     
  3. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    While we can agree, H screwed us with this contract, and his cronies in his administration are douchebags, begining with philips, they are still a better representation for the UPS members than the same old slate of G hopefuls.

    There is NO giant push for G from the membership and any suggestion of this is silly talk at best.

    TOS.
     
  4. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    1742 to 463 is just under 4:1.
     
  5. Hawfuh Sux

    Hawfuh Sux Old Guard Assassin!

    Sal Z didn't abandon G. Sal got into some trouble over some domestic disturbance and decided it was better for him not to run.
     
  6. Evil

    Evil Active Member

    I'm not a big supporter of G, but I will never back a lying piece of garbage like H or his cronies. And I will back G because at least he has the balls to run against H despite the fact of all the shiit H and Phillips have done to him and his family. Not very many have had the courage to run against any of these bastards, including you or me because we fear losing our jobs.

    You make the claim G has no pull, but no one in Southern California has been able to sell 300 tickets for $20 each and have over 200 members show up to his fundraiser event. So tell me how that is not support? Ron H wishes he could get 20 members to show up to his general membership meetings.

    Lets get rid of H now and if G sucks, you can run against him in three years and not only will I support you, I'll campaign for you. But now is the opportunity to get rid of H, Phillips and every krook in the local.
     
  7. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Lets not discuss SAL's private history. That is something not related to running for office. If sal's personal business is an issue, then the restraining order against Galvans wife from the local is also an issue.

    I have another take, as the G slate looked to "push" Sal out and simply used an excuse to do so.

    Either way, I have spoken to Sal, and he is not endorsing G.

    Neither are the majority of package and feeder drivers in our network.

    Time will tell, but let me go on the record with a prediction.

    G - 960 votes - H 1745

    Two notes to pay attention to.

    First, H will recieve fewer votes than the last election, but will still carry the majority. Allthough, his stance on this contract went against the general memberships wishes, he will still carry the majority.

    For G, allbeit being a generally nice guy, his "seeking" out individuals who could bring his slate votes vs. earning the votes on his leadership alone speaks volumes about his candidacy. His attempt at bringing in Sal was in vain, as the feeder group doesnt like G as a leader. ( I am in feeder)

    G has made it a point to associate himself with TDU leadership, and while I dont want to disparage the group alltogether, this is nothing more than seeking assistance where earning votes isnt in the cards.

    G has run before and lost big, barely recieving a few votes over the normal dissention vote that usually goes against the incumbent.

    His jumping into this race again has only prevented others from running. Splitting the vote between several slates is always a losing proposition.

    Once he loses, G needs to step back and get out of the way for 2017.

    Louie A tried unsuccessfully 4 times to run for local office only to lose each time. No matter how you change up the lineup, the person at the top either earns respect on his own, or brings the entire slate down with him.

    Ill let you choose how it goes.

    TOS.
     
  8. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    To some point I agree with you.

    There are other issues to consider when talking about running a local office. G has no executive officer experience running a local, so it stands to reason that he will have to rely on "OUTSIDERS" to control the local.

    Having "outsiders" controlling the local brings about its own problems. TDU for one.

    TDU has NEVER been popular here in so cal, and in 396 TDU carries with it a bad name.

    G and TDU as a mix will alienate most 396 upsers and Ron will get those votes despite being hated for his role in this latest contract.

    It doesnt take "balls" to run against H, it takes experience. Experience to know when and when not to run against an encumbent.

    Its clear, that Galvans motivations for self gain outweighs his motivations to help the local members.

    If the members were his key issue, then why focus only on outsiders to help him with this election?

    Bringing in Fred Z, isnt a help for him.. Well i applaud Fred for his efforts at his local, and for his courage to stand up against the current hierarchy at the International, his efforts went most unnoticed here in local 396.

    Members are just not that "engaged" to give a crap. So, Fred endorsing carries no weight with our members.

    Members dont forget, and Galvans "adventure in las vegas" didnt stay in vegas, and the membership knows this alltowell.

    I dont agree with H and Phillips, and I "personally" called them out to their faces, in my yard during the contract negotiations, and the both of them filed "Harrassment" charges on me with UPS.

    Those charges were dismissed just as quickly as the both of them ran into HR with their tails between their legs.

    G knows there was a better plan for this election, but his ego wont allow the members to have a slate that they could support without having to re elect H.

    Let me be clear, G is a nice person, he has ideas, but he is the wrong person for the job.

    TOS.
     
  9. Evil

    Evil Active Member

    How about getting rid of H now and if G sucks you run against him in three years? But now is the time to get rid of those worthless bastards in the local. Do you think the turnout will be better this time around? Or about the same amount of people will vote?
     
  10. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    Well, ask yourself this, if you had an infection in your hand, would you cut off your arm first before treating it with antibiotics?

    Its easy to say "lets get rid of ron and his cronies", but at what cost? How many employees are you willing to sacrifice over the next three years to get rid of Ron?

    There is NO guarantee that G or anyone in his slate can defend an employee in arbitration or on the front lines.

    This will be the price "we" pay, when the company realizes that it can man handle G and everyone of his inexperienced slate members. Secondly, there is the local itself to worry about. Finances to run the local take alot of responsibility to manage. G having zero executive experience doesnt lend itself to safeguarding the locals treasury.

    Thirdly, we know what monster we have in H already, so why experiment with G? "

    G wanted to run again, thats fine, we stepped aside to let him do so. No sense running competing slates and splitting the votes in either direction.

    If G actually had a chance to win over the membership here in local 396, I would support him, but unfortunately, he doesnt.

    Ron will get rid of himself in less than three years. He will win this election, stay for about 1 1/2 years, retire from our local and run for national office with the current IBT board members, leaving Phillips to guide our local for the remaining part of Ronnie's term.

    This way, Phillips gets a chance to show us all here in 396 that he is not a bucket of scum, like he currently projects to all of us.

    In the next cycle, running against Phillips will be like running through a paper wall like in a high school football game..

    [​IMG]

    This membership will never place itself in jeopardy with unproven people, just because they hate the ones in office.

    Remember this, its all about the mathematics.

    In our local, 3000 votes will be counted towards our election. Of course we all know, this is a fraction of the votes possible in our local, but its the normal average for the last 18 years.

    That means that the winner needs 1501 to win this election. When Ron and I ran the first time, we received over 2700 votes, leaving practically nothing for bruno and tdu.

    Since I left, Ron has lost almost one thousand votes, but still continues to win the elections. Two have run against him so far, and both have fallen way short of winning.

    G ran last time, and I predicted on this board, he would get 935 votes. He received 955, meaning I was only off my projection by 20 votes. I have called them pretty close over the last 20 years in this local ever since being involved as an Executive officer and business agent for this local.

    Each time a candidate runs and loses, he loses 20% of the vote he received the first time around, so, given this fact, G will lose approx. 200 votes right off the bat from what he received in the last election. In order to get those votes back, he has to change his lineup with people who can "DRAW" votes. Sal was one of them, but he no longer is involved with G.

    Now, he has aligned himself with a rubbish leader, and that will gain some votes, but even if he draws 200 more sanitation votes, all he has done is cancel out the loses G himself will bring to the slate.

    With a couple of other changes, G could gain possibly 100 votes, but that leaves him way short of 1501.

    If a second or third slate runs, those numbers for G get worse, even if the second or third slates get 200 each, thats 400 away from G and he loses even bigger.

    This is why the encumbent always encourages more slates than is needed. They know the vote divides in their favor.

    Its all about the math.

    As for the turnout, its always LESS, not more. Look at the contract, hardly anyone voted for it in our local, maybe 10% of the total UPSers.

    Part timers wont vote with regularity, no matter how crappy the contract is. They dont have the long term vision to understand its implications. That's not an insult, its a definition of understanding.

    Look at this last contract, in the begining, everyone was :censored2: off, but as time went by, people became disconnected and didnt care anymore, all they wanted was the back pay. Same with elections, the contract is a thing of the past to most, so it comes down to leadership.

    Its practically all the same 3000 voters each time, so NO new faces to count, which means, you have to be able to change peoples minds. That takes leadership and accomplishment.

    If you cant lead, you cant win.

    If a candidate has to rely on outside influences and "their" accomplishments to be recognized, then you have a candidate who stands in a shadow.

    Fred Z. knows nothing about G or his actions as a business agent. I do.

    I was an executive officer of the local at the time.

    TOS.
     
  11. undies

    undies Active Member

    You cant presume to speak for all the members of 396.
     
  12. Hawfuh Sux

    Hawfuh Sux Old Guard Assassin!

    TOS
    TOS, your analogy is correct. To bad the members haveto put up with three more years of Ron.

    Now what's going on with Rome A and H running with him in 2016? Because the everyone knows the Southwest will not back hall after this garbage carve out.
     
  13. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Wanna bet?

    TOS.
     
  14. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    I agree, the membership overall SHOULD reject any component of the current administration running for IBT leadership positions.

    There needs to be new ideas, new principles and new leaders to handle the contract in 2018. These last two giveaway contracts can only lead us to believe that more will be lost, should the same players, minus Hoffa remain the same.

    As for our local, it is a shame when a candidate puts his "personal" motivations ahead of the members concerns.

    This isnt a popularity contest, its a leadership role. It isnt a job for leap frogging into the national scene.

    G has shown that he is more interested in national office than obtaining local office first. His attempting to include himself into TDU convention politics shows his real intentions. His contacting of Fred Z. as some sort of "backstop" shows he has no ability to earn respect for himself and that he needs to be "pulled" over the finish line vs. running over it under his own power.

    With Ron and the IBT, who knows at this point. There is alot of chatter going on behind the scenes, and only time will tell how that plays out. Regardless, strategy is whats being worked out right now behind the scenes at the IBT.

    They know they have to deal with a "hostile" membership, and the wrong person could sink the ship.

    This is why local elections matter. Look at 972. They had the right number of dissention voters to oust Kelly, but, too many slates won and split the vote costing both slates a loss.

    This keeps Kelly in office and in play for 2018 contract negotiations unless the 972 can find ONE slate to take out Kelly prior to 2018.

    Ron came into office with the ideals and principles as I had, members first, local governance and responsible finances.

    Today, Ron has abandoned us as a leader, and has his sights set on national office. He will never go against the grain and will do what he is told to do by the IBT as long as he sits on the IBT board.

    TOS.
     
  15. Hawfuh Sux

    Hawfuh Sux Old Guard Assassin!

    TOS
     
  16. Hawfuh Sux

    Hawfuh Sux Old Guard Assassin!

    Those guys down south couldn't unite a slate because they had to many egos in the last two elections on both slates. If they get their things together and leave their Hoffa/reform/TDU egos out of it they'll beat Kelly or who ever is in charge. Kelly and his finances are wreck and his BAs are management puppets. They can't run on their record anymore.
     
  17. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    i agree. But thats my point. EGO's get in the way.

    Same in 396. An overinflated EGO is going to ruin a good chance of replacing H, and end up leaving him in office to continue with his personal goals of making the national scene.

    Sometimes, that EGO has to be put in check, and get out of the way. Unfortunately for us, its in the way.

    Kelly should have lost, plain and simple. Its pathetic to have seen him win with barely over 400 votes.

    396 will recover, the members understand that sometimes you just have to sit through another ugly election and wait for the next opportunity.

    Stay tuned. Time will tell.

    TOS.
     
  18. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    Z, that's "some pig"
     
  19. undies

    undies Active Member

    Sure, I'll bet. I am a member of 396 and do not agree with many of the things you are saying. I voted no twice on the contract and still feel like we got a sour deal with our healthcare, that does not mean I am ready to overthrow the current leadership. Personally, I'd rather stick with the people who I THINK know what they're doing and have our GENERAL best interest's in mind. Just my opinion of course.
     
  20. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    I am not sure you are understanding me correctly. I too voted twice to reject this contract, i too think we got a raw deal on healthcare and many of other things.. I too, dont believe we should toss Ron H. out and replace him with G.

    So, I am not sure where you think you disagree with me?

    I have been involved with our local politics since 1992 under Raul Lopez. I have been involved in many campaigns since then.

    You can disagree, thats your priviledge, but I dont see where you and I are that far off each other.

    For over 20 years, I have participated in this process and acurately predicted the outcomes of elections going back to 1997 in our local.

    You may not want to believe things about Ron and his crew, and that is fine, but then again, you dont have the "inside" perspective that I have.

    There is a difference of night and day between a general member and an executive officers experience.

    TOS.