"Freedom of Speech"; When am I "Free", to speak my mind?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by stevetheupsguy, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. stevetheupsguy

    stevetheupsguy sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ

    I had an interesting conversation with someone today. We were discussing our rights to free speech. The conversation turned to free speech at work vs free speech at home. I felt that we had limited rights to free speech at work, due to the various rules and regulations than can be enforced by ones employer. I also felt that we had full freedoms of speech, when we are no longer at work.

    The person I was speaking with felt the same as I did about freedom of speech, at work. As far as when we leave work, they seemed to think that we were limited in our speech, as far as anything we say about our employer. Intimating that one may be terminated for what one says about their employer, even when not on the clock/job.

    I'd like to hear what we, here at the Brown Cafe, feel about this issue?
     
  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    I guess photos are a form of expressiom ... just like speech.

    Judgment should be used.

    May not be fair but life is not fair sometimes.
     
  3. stevetheupsguy

    stevetheupsguy sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ

    Photo's aside, I mean speech.
     
  4. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    OK setting aside the analogy ... and saying the same thing in a lot more words.

    This has been in the courts many times and I can't remember a company or any employer losing a case.

    People think they have freedom of speech because it is in the constitution. That is a common, and sometime regrettable misunderstanding. A US citizen is guaranteed the right of freedom of speech in regards to the government taking action against him/her.

    All bets are off when it comes to other individuals or entities (collection of individuals).

    That's reality.
     
  5. Livin the Dream?

    Livin the Dream? Disillusioned UPSer

    Beat me to it. You cannot be jailed, punished or persecuted by those in governmental power because of what you say.

    All bets are off with public figures (or employers). Go to a biker bar, call the toughest guy you see "Nancy". If you survive, you can try to explain to him about free speech. Right of free speech is not a right to choose the forum you practice it in.
     
  6. Sammie

    Sammie Well-Known Member

    Nope, we don't. It would be impossible to. We never will be 'free' of our words or our actions because we always run the risk of our 'freedom' overshadowing someone elses, be it a boss or a relative. By law, we're free to speak as we wish. But we must be prepared to meet our words face to face.

    Teachers are limited as to what they can talk about. At work, people are not allowed to say whatever they want to. (Lawsuits.) Our federal and state Grand Jury systems function in secrecy.

    In our homes, family members exercise freedom of speech laid down by the people who pay the bills.

    I've seen irate parents kicked out of ball games because of the language they used.

    The military has full control over the speech of its enlisted members.

    Bill Maher was fired from Politically Incorrect in 2002 by saying, “We have been the cowards, lobbing Cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, not cowardly." He wasn't arrested for his comments, but he was considered unpatriotic and lost his job.

    And there's always Don Imus...

    When does free speech become sue-able as it's now libel or slander?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2009
  7. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    I believe in the freedom of speech and expression, but it has it's limits.
    The Miranda warning starts off;
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you.
    I, as most, am guilty of not using my right to silence, when I should keep my mouth shut.
     
  8. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    The word freedom is an often misunderstood and overvalued word.
    Don't get me wrong, our country is founded on certain freedoms.
    These freedoms, as alluded by previous posters, protect us from criminal persecution.
    What's often lost is that freedom in any form is only justified if it does not infringe on the liberties of another.
    The liberties of an individual or even a Fortune 500 company.
    A perfect example is the OJ trial.
    Although he was found not guilty of murder, it did not make him exempt from civil prosecution by the Goldmans.
    Another would be smoking laws.
    While people have the right to smoke, they don't have the right to smoke were ever they please.
    Freedoms come with a price.
    Be prepared when exercising your convictions.
     
  9. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    :blushing: Me too!
     
  10. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Well, I dont see anything in the contract that gives the company the right to impose disciplinary action for speaking one's mind while off the clock and off the property, so as far as I am concerned I will say whatever i want to on my own time.

    Obviously, the exception to this would be criminal behavior such as making death threats or sexual harassment towards a coworker.
     
  11. ih8tbrn

    ih8tbrn Banned

    +1
     
  12. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    This is all well and good on the union side, but management side is much more tricky IMO. especially if there is any confidential or at least semi-private information being weighed in
     
  13. Covemastah

    Covemastah Suspension Ovah !!! Tom is free FU Goodell !!

    I try to monitor my freedom of speach in my home,in fear of not getting my dinner,or clean clothes!!
     
  14. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    They gave up their rights when they signed up for management. They are considered "at will" employees that can be discharged at any time for any reason.
     
  15. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    I feel that your most major, and really only problem is that you are NOT ANONYMOUS!!! In fact, you are soooo not anonymous. You are the complete opposite of anonymous.
    Anonymity is our friend. I love being anonymous, I can be completely honest, and no-one can do a thing about it! (although, I've been here so long, my anonymity is slipping away).
    Soon there will be no more Over9five, I'll return under a new name. I'll introduce myself in the new user forum. I'll ask where I can get socks. I'll have a new personality! You won't even know me! Kinda like BBAG.... NO, not like BBAG at all! He always gets caught!
    And I suggest you do the same!





    Love ya, Steve!!!
     
  16. Big Babooba

    Big Babooba Well-Known Member

    Don't hold back. Let her know who's the boss! If you need a place to stay, I have an extra room. I'm a damn good cook too. Just don't give me any lip or I'll crown you with my frying pan!:happy-very:
     
  17. wrecker

    wrecker Member

    And other things.
     
  18. dilligaf

    dilligaf IN VINO VERITAS

    Be careful Cove, Big's been bach'ing it for awhile. You'll probably get stuck with the house cleaning and laundry.:wink2:

    LMAO We are evil that way sometimes. Get's the point across don't it.:surprised:
     
  19. cheryl

    cheryl I started this. Staff Member

    The U.S. Constitution:

    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


    Freedom of speech? ... better ask your boss

    The U.S. Constitution's free speech protections apply only to action by the government.

    That means the government can't prevent you from expressing your opinion, such as speaking at a political rally or writing a letter to the editor of the local newspaper.

    By contrast, except for limited exceptions, there's nothing to keep your employer from firing you, or taking other disciplinary action, for what you say at the water cooler, in a company newsletter, or even on your own personal blog.


    Anonymity

    Many people don't want the things they say online to be connected with their offline identities.

    Instead of using their true names to communicate, these people choose to speak using pseudonyms (assumed names) or anonymously (no name at all). For these individuals and the organizations that support them, secure anonymity is critical.

    Anonymous communications have an important place in our political and social discourse. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that the right to anonymous free speech is protected by the First Amendment

    These long-standing rights to anonymity and the protections it affords are critically important for the Internet. As the Supreme Court has recognized, the Internet offers a new and powerful democratic forum in which anyone can become a "pamphleteer" or "a town crier with a voice that resonates farther than it could from any soapbox."


    :puppet:
     
  20. pickup

    pickup Well-Known Member

    I believe one of the limitations on free speech is the classic example of the guy who yells "Fire" in a crowded theatre . My question : What if there is actually a fire?