From Open shop/closed shop to orphans...

[Cementups]

According to http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm PA is a Forced-Unionism State.

 

[dannyboy]

Union - PA

According to http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm PA is a Forced-Unionism State.

cement

i think that is what bbag was posting?

i agree, not belonging to the union but yet being allowed all the benefits are a bit screwy.

but not allowing someone the free choice of belonging or not is also screwy.

the employees at auto makers do not have a say so as to the crap they produce. just like we dont have a say as to what time we make certain deliveries. those decisions are made by people that get paid too much for what they contribute, but yet somehow they have figured out a way to make themselves too valuable to fire? even though their contribution is of very limited or no value?

one more take. when we did the job in philly, it is interesting on how the strangle hold of unionism really is. even though the pay for me and my guys did not change, we had to fork out almost 1000 to the union for us to do a three day project. workers did not make a dime more, the company and the workers saw no benefit from that money being paid to the union.

much like a pay off, only the union office(ers) saw a benefit from that extra cost. but because of the closed shop mentality, that extra grand went to the union instead of being split as a bonus between the people that actually worked their asses off to get the job done within the time allotted.

somehow, some people figure that is fair. i happen to disagree.

d

 

[705red]

I have some questions about right to work states.
Are you represented by the teamsters in discipline cases if your not a dues payer?
Do you pay any dues at all if not a registered teamster?
How many of the non teamster members stood on the strike line in 97 or did they all cross?

I can see were alot of the problem across the country come from on representation in these right to work states. If a small percentage of upsers sign on, than there is not enough dues flowing in to have enough agents to handle the problems.

You might have one agent for 5 6 7 buildings pluys they might have to handle other crafts and or work for ups at the same time. Imo

 

[BigBrownSanta]

I have heard it put this way...

You will still get represention, but do you want public defender representation or Johhny Cochran representation?

 

[sortaisle]

Washington State - Union forced. Can't complain about it. I have great benefits, good wage, and some form of job security. Can't say that my job stays the same all the time, but at least I get to do something.

 

[soberups]

I agree with Danny, make the union work for the members. I pay my dues every week, my choice. Membership should remain a choice, the same Constitution that gives a person the right to start/join a union, gives me the right to not join if I choose.

This statement is incorrect for two reasons.

1. The Constitution and Bill of Rights make no reference to labor unions.

2. You have the right to refuse to join a union, even in a closed shop state. All you have to do...is not apply for work at a union shop. Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Taco Bell and virtually all gas stations and convenience stores offer people the opportunities to reap the benefits of a non-union work enviornment.

I am in a closed-shop state (Oregon) where we do not feel that it is fair for a person to choose to enjoy the benefits of a labor agreement that they refuse to be a part of.

 

[cachsux]

Not exactly on target for this thread but...
Certainly not against higher wages and benefits but I have to point out the obvious that the union factories (i.e. - GM, Ford) in the Northern Union states (Rust Belt) are going out of business or close to it while the non-union factories (i.e. - Toyota, Nissan) in the South appear to be more stable.

The big three have factories across the U.S. as well as Canada and Mexico. Unions while part of their problem is far from their big problem. The 3 have been notorious for being years behind the curve when it comes to having the right cars for the times. Also they are all guilty of living fat off of the high profit SUV/truck line. Plus they all allowed every Tom,Dick,and Harry with a pulse take out a factory subsidized car loan even though the risk of default was great just to rack another sale. Add in the now headline news high oil prices/economic slowdown/credit collapse and you have the perfect storm to sink the big three.
Whether or not they were union was just a small part as the non union manufacturers are also hurting as well.

 

[some1else]

Are you represented by the teamsters in discipline cases if your not a dues payer?
Do you pay any dues at all if not a registered teamster?

"represented" up to arbitration (i doubt its = representation to a members though), my dues are 0$

btw the reason i wont join the union is that they spend alot of the money to support the DNC and therefore abortion. i would rather risk my job and represent my self or get private representation than financially support abortion and burn in the eternal hellfire.

if the union would ask me to pay core dues (an option in union states as well), which is only the amount used for bargaining and representation, and no portion goes towards unrelated political activity-- i would consider it. however realizing the principle of fungibility of funds, as well as the fact the union advertises we have XXXX members (and i would be one of them) i would still have the blood of the unborn on my hands.

 

[soberups]

I keep hearing the term "forced unionism" tossed about. This term is at best inaccurate and at worst dishonest.

In the entire history of organized labor, not one person has EVER been "forced" to join a union.

They can choose to join, and reap the benefits of a union contract...or they can choose not to join, and seek employment elsewhere.

Less than 20% of all jobs in the USA are covered by a labor agreement.

That means that 80% of the jobs out there are free of any requirement for union membership, whether they are in a "right to fire" state or not.

If you dont want to join a union....dont take a union job.

 

[some1else]

They can choose to join, and reap the benefits of a union contract...or they can choose not to join, and seek employment elsewhere..

even in union states you do not have to join the union. you are only required to pay "financial core" dues which is only the portion that goes to representation and collective bargaining.

 

[upsdude]

............................chioce is a OK as long as it agrees with the union postion. Unions love to wave the flag and spout off about "Rights", as long as you agree with their position.

 

[upsdude]

even in union states you do not have to join the union. you are only required to pay "financial core" dues which is only the portion that goes to representation and collective bargaining.

Beck Rights, Google it.

 

[soberups]

"represented" up to arbitration (i doubt its = representation to a members though), my dues are 0$

btw the reason i wont join the union is that they spend alot of the money to support the DNC and therefore abortion. i would rather risk my job and represent my self or get private representation than financially support abortion and burn in the eternal hellfire.

if the union would ask me to pay core dues (an option in union states as well), which is only the amount used for bargaining and representation, and no portion goes towards unrelated political activity-- i would consider it. however realizing the principle of fungibility of funds, as well as the fact the union advertises we have XXXX members (and i would be one of them) i would still have the blood of the unborn on my hands.

UPSPAC (the UPS Political Action Committee) has also made political contributions to Democratic candidates. Therefore, by your own logic, UPS also has the "blood of the unborn" on its hands, and by working for UPS you are supporting abortion and will burn in the eternal hellfire.

You sound like a man of principle. Will your principles allow you to continue working for UPS? Or are your principles nothing more than a convenient excuse reap the benefits of a union job while forcing your coworkers to pay your dues for you?

 

[Cementups]

cement

i think that is what bbag was posting?
d

Sory, I didn't see his post. After reading the first couple, I skipped to the bottom and posted my own along with the link.

 

[cachsux]

btw the reason i wont join the union is that they spend alot of the money to support the DNC and therefore abortion. i would rather risk my job and represent my self or get private representation than financially support abortion and burn in the eternal hellfire.

if the union would ask me to pay core dues (an option in union states as well), which is only the amount used for bargaining and representation, and no portion goes towards unrelated political activity-- i would consider it. however realizing the principle of fungibility of funds, as well as the fact the union advertises we have XXXX members (and i would be one of them) i would still have the blood of the unborn on my hands.

Not to throw this thread off the tracks but I`m curious. How many adopted orphans do you support with your "clean hands" paycheck. While I support your right to follow your beliefs I`m amazed at how few pro-life supporters actually show up to adopt the now un-aborted children.

 

[705red]

"represented" up to arbitration (i doubt its = representation to a members though), my dues are 0$

btw the reason i wont join the union is that they spend alot of the money to support the DNC and therefore abortion. i would rather risk my job and represent my self or get private representation than financially support abortion and burn in the eternal hellfire.

You are aware that the majority of the money that is given to politicians comes out of the teamster drive fund! This is seperate from the dues that get paid and is voluntary. Now some money does come out of the dues (i believe) but it is minimal. At every monthly meeting here the donations get read out to the memebers and are approved.

Now im assuming your a male, now assuming you have a sister, now again what would happen if she was raped by a gang banger? Would you approve of abortion than? Or would you use that dues money you save and by that bastard child birthday and christmas presents with it?

Your hourly wage, benefits, paid vacations etc have all come from hard work by the guys and gals that came before us. Some of these people even died for the right to have a fair work day, work place rights, the 40 hour week, paid vacations, employer medical plans. But its to much to ask for todays generation to just pay dues!

Not to mention that republicans are not middle class union friendly. Imo



if the union would ask me to pay core dues (an option in union states as well), which is only the amount used for bargaining and representation, and no portion goes towards unrelated political activity-- i would consider it. however realizing the principle of fungibility of funds, as well as the fact the union advertises we have XXXX members (and i would be one of them) i would still have the blood of the unborn on my hands.

I really hope that none of your female relatives or friends ever wind up being raped! Nothing like forcing a woman to relive that dreadful act over and over again when she has to look at that bastard child of hers.

 

[upsdude]

Not to throw this thread off the tracks but I`m curious. How many adopted orphans do you support with your "clean hands" paycheck. While I support your right to follow your beliefs I`m amazed at how few pro-life supporters actually show up to adopt the now un-aborted children.

Off the tracks? Big time derailment!! LOL

 

[soberups]

If men could also get pregnant, abortions would be available on demand at Home Depot or AutoZone.

 

[New Englander]

Not exactly on target for this thread but...
Certainly not against higher wages and benefits but I have to point out the obvious that the union factories (i.e. - GM, Ford) in the Northern Union states (Rust Belt) are going out of business or close to it while the non-union factories (i.e. - Toyota, Nissan) in the South appear to be more stable.

Luckily for us, UPS is in a service industry that is not pressured by globalization in the same way that manufacturing is.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the unions and you know it.

 

[upsdude]

If men could also get pregnant, abortions would be available on demand at Home Depot or AutoZone.

At 2 Non Union shops? Never!!