Full Time Driver Lay Offs

[outamyway]

I have never seen a route with 60 to 65 air stops on it!

So do you think 30-35 is possible leaving the building at 10 to 9:00?

When routes are eliminated, other routes get bigger which means more area to cover. Lately, though not everyday, we've needed more air drivers helping out than back in early December.

 

[outamyway]

Wasnt the vegas election just recently? I thought that i heard the incumbent lost?

They did. I'm glad they are gone. It's unfortunate though, they were left with such a mess.

 

[over9five]

No the volume is not the unions fault, but it is the unions fault that a 15 year member gets laid off before a 5 year member.

I think you'll have to explain how that could happen.

 

[outamyway]

They did. I'm glad they are gone. It's unfortunate though, the new guys were left with such a mess.

That's what I meant to say

 

[705red]

So do you think 30-35 is possible leaving the building at 10 to 9:00?

When routes are eliminated, other routes get bigger which means more area to cover. Lately, though not everyday, we've needed more air drivers helping out than back in early December.

Absolutely, it stll sounds high but more reasonable than 60 to 65.

If the airs are palled to you take them out!

 

[705red]

No the volume is not the unions fault, but it is the unions fault that a 15 year member gets laid off before a 5 year member.

A 15 year driver laid off before a 5 year driver? I cant even imagine hoffa allowing such a thing!

 

[1989]

A 15 year driver laid off before a 5 year driver? I cant even imagine hoffa allowing such a thing!

I've withdrawn with the intent of rejoining. do you know how to withdrawal for good? I would not have an interest in rejoining this time.

 

[BrownBlue]

So, you will than take a hand out from the nasty union after withdrawing, won't ya? Or will you accept to work for UPS outside of the contract, and get the wages they would give you without the union? I despise free loaders, that are willing to take the benefits bargained by the union, but are not willing to pay their share for the service. It's like the deadbeats that live of government social programs their whole life while the rest of us flip the bill. Pay your dues like everyone else pal.

 

[No such person]

No layoffs in my center, but we lost 6 drivers in the last two months ( 3 fired, 3 retired ), and haven't brought in any more.

 

[trplnkl]

No the volume is not the unions fault, but it is the unions fault that a 15 year member gets laid off before a 5 year member.

Please explain this? you have 15 years as a driver and you were laid off and a 5 year driver worked? Is this correct? Or did I miss something here?

 

[DS]

This is a bit off topic,but in a manpower sense,related in a way.
I get about 10-12 10:30 commits every day,plus 18 or so noon commits.
We are told at PCM's that if we feel we can't make commits due to excessive air volume,we are to talk to our oncar before leaving the building.
Its been almost 20 years now that I've been delivering air and ground at the same time.I know the area well,and maybe 5 times in 20 years have I ever had to go back to deliver ground later.
Here's my point,if I started doing all my airs first and going back later to deliver ground,it would give me(or some air driver)an extra hour or so on road every day.Could this not be considered stealing time?

 

[1989]

So, you will than take a hand out from the nasty union after withdrawing, won't ya? Or will you accept to work for UPS outside of the contract, and get the wages they would give you without the union? I despise free loaders, that are willing to take the benefits bargained by the union, but are not willing to pay their share for the service. It's like the deadbeats that live of government social programs their whole life while the rest of us flip the bill. Pay your dues like everyone else pal.

If I am laid off after paying 15 years of union dues I am not taking a handout. In those 15 years the union never spent a dime on defending me personally. The union failed to protect my job. Don't I have a right to demonstrate against something I believe is wrong?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Please explain this? you have 15 years as a driver and you were laid off and a 5 year driver worked? Is this correct? Or did I miss something here?

He said member not driver. I can see where this could happen, especially if the 5 yr member was hired off the street as a driver and gained his FT seniority before the 15 yr member, who was probably a preloader and only recently gained FT seniority as a driver. I have more FT seniority than 3 or 4 drivers as I was hired off the street and they came up through the preload.

 

[1989]

Please explain this? you have 15 years as a driver and you were laid off and a 5 year driver worked? Is this correct? Or did I miss something here?

Haven't been laid off yet just stating that if I were I may choose to withdrawal. Would be laid off before a 3 year driver due to center seniority.

 

[trplnkl]

He said member not driver. I can see where this could happen, especially if the 5 yr member was hired off the street as a driver and gained his FT seniority before the 15 yr member, who was probably a preloader and only recently gained FT seniority as a driver. I have more FT seniority than 3 or 4 drivers as I was hired off the street and they came up through the preload.

I realize it could happen that way, but I wanted to know if that was the situation or not.
Another scenario, if at one time a bid was up for FT and none of the higher senior people wanted the bid at the time. The lower person makes the move and a year or so later the previously higher senior PT goes into FT. I have a higher seniority as a FT driver than several people that have more overall seniority. That's where the job classification comes into play.

 

[trplnkl]

Haven't been laid off yet just stating that if I were I may choose to withdrawal. Would be laid off before a 3 year driver due to center seniority.

So what you are saying is that the 3 year guy has more FT seniority in your center than you? Yet you have more overall?

 

[BrownBlue]

So you never benefited from all the contracts in those 15 years? Never got a raise, your co-pay for benefits increased with the rising cost of care, your retirement was not contributed, you never used your senority to get better routes, positions, etc.? Yeah you have the right to demonstrate, but freeloading only says you aren't willing to pay for benefits recieved. Everyone can get pissed at the system and go on welfare, but that right is just the right to be irresponsible. If you want to demonstrate, go down to the hall and badger the crap out of them until you get what you feel is fair representation for you and the other members from the union. No reason to just give up. You can always go work at a non-union shop and see if that works out for you. I've paid for dead beats, I've paid for poorly managed banks, insurance companies, governments, auto manufacturers, and now you want me to pay for you. No thanks, sorry the more I think about it the more pissed I get. Pay your dues like everyone else.

 

[1989]

So what you are saying is that the 3 year guy has more FT seniority in your center than you? Yet you have more overall?

Yes, I have 13 years ft driving he has 3.

 

[trplnkl]

So you never benefited from all the contracts in those 15 years? Never got a raise, your co-pay for benefits increased with the rising cost of care, your retirement was not contributed, you never used your senority to get better routes, positions, etc.? Yeah you have the right to demonstrate, but freeloading only says you aren't willing to pay for benefits recieved. Everyone can get pissed at the system and go on welfare, but that right is just the right to be irresponsible. If you want to demonstrate, go down to the hall and badger the crap out of them until you get what you feel is fair representation for you and the other members from the union. No reason to just give up. You can always go work at a non-union shop and see if that works out for you. I've paid for dead beats, I've paid for poorly managed banks, insurance companies, governments, auto manufacturers, and now you want me to pay for you. No thanks, sorry the more I think about it the more pissed I get. Pay your dues like everyone else.

He's been a member for 15 years, so he has payed for the representation, the raises, the use of seniority and all that other stuff. Guess what, he has also payed taxes just as you and I have have. At what point do you get to stop paying for what you received in that past? Do retirees have to keep paying dues because they keep benefiting from union activities?

 

[trplnkl]

Yes, I have 13 years ft driving he has 3.

Has this happened yet or are you speculating? If we are truly comparing full time driving to full time driving then I'm thinking if they lay you off and work him, you can win a grievance, hands down. I've never heard of any supplement that would allow this and I am pretty sure the NMA would not.
To my knowledge this would hold true even if you were a full time cover driver and he a ft bid driver.

have you both been in the same center all this time?