Glad I'm out of this Part2

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Ironically- fedex has made it easier to unionize by requiring ISPs have employees. Teamsters have to only target 1-2 large ISPs at the largest terminals. They don't need to ask for much at first. Then when other drivers for other ISPs see higher wages and some benefits, even minor, they will be easy to organize. Once most drivers in a terminal are unionized, that can work together to force fedex into paying the ISP more to cover costs. That is when the ISP model will crumble. Fedex would never recover if 50% 0f the drivers in each state went on strike. That's how I would plan if I was a union organizerrt slow, ease your way in, and then hit them when they can't refuse- like just before peak..

Since each ISP is a 'separate' business, the teamsters don't need to organize the even the entire terminal at once, just 6 out of ten of 1 ISP.
That would fall apart. X would simply let those ISPs fail and you'd see new ownership for the Teamsters to organize the same workers under a new name...over and over and over with the benefits never materializing.
 

STFXG

Well-Known Member
When he learns that drivers who have been on a route 12 years as opposed to 2 or 3 are more productive

That's just beyond insane. You really think a driver isn't completely proficient at a route in 2 years? Have you ever trained any drivers?
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
As for training timelines, a lot has to do with the size of the route. If it's a metro area or a route of normal size and the guy is at the outset some what familiar then 2 months might do it. Many g drivers work neighborhoods, out where I am we work multiple counties. Figure 6 months just to maybe get up to snuff. By that time winter has set in and all you can do is hope that he is experienced enough not to get himself killed out there. One other thing. DMAC paints an interesting and credible scenerio. You do not assualt an organizing target. You infiltrate it.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
As for training timelines, a lot has to do with the size of the route. If it's a metro area or a route of normal size and the guy is at the outset some what familiar then 2 months might do it. Many g drivers work neighborhoods, out where I am we work multiple counties. Figure 6 months just to maybe get up to snuff. By that time winter has set in and all you can do is hope that he is experienced enough not to get himself killed out there. One other thing. DMAC paints an interesting and credible scenerio. You do not assualt an organizing target. You infiltrate it.
What country do you guys live in? The teamsters are not a credible threat to FedEx. They can't organize the Freight division, where the relationship between corporate and employee is crystal clear. You think they can make enough inroads between small ISPs to bring down the Ground model? It's an interesting scenario, it's also a fantasy.

Bacha, I don't care what the geography is in your area, it doesn't take 6 months to get a driver up to acceptable. We don't shoot for exceptional at Ground, adequate will do and it doesn't take that long.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
There you go again. trying to compare city with rural. First hand experience with the matter demonstrated clearly that to get a new guy from a productivity perspective to get up to what his fully versed predecessor could do , it took a good six months. Out here you don't go from stop A to stop B then stop C. You fromA to B to K to S than back to C because if you don't by the time you get to S they are gone for the day. We had new car dealers who were closed on Mondays. Operations that closed at noon on Weds. places open only 1 or 2 days a week. A single pickup that was a 40 mile round trip with small window.Small elementary schools stretched across a 300 square mile school district. Daily trip mileage of 300+ miles is a slow day. You take your GPS device and throw it out the window. They have proven themselves woefully inaccurate out in the sticks. You take your turn by turn set up your own stop sequence based on your own knowledge of the aforementioned circumstances. This takes time. As for your temster comments,because rule of law quarantees a worker the right to pursue collective bargaining anything can happen when you treat people so badly that they simply rise up in anger realizing that they are at the point where they have nothing left to lose.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
That's silly
No it's not. X has no duty to increase pay to an ISP just because his drivers are union. And union scale and benefits will sink the ISP in no time. It won't be worth doing and he'll walk away and file bankruptcy. Enter new ISP, repeat.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
No it's not. X has no duty to increase pay to an ISP just because his drivers are union. And union scale and benefits will sink the ISP in no time. It won't be worth doing and he'll walk away and file bankruptcy. Enter new ISP, repeat.
You are deliberately missing the point. Organizing one ISP at a time and asking for a 50 cent raise won't break anyone. And then the union only needs to organize one ISP at a time, until they have 50% or more of each terminal organized. At that point the union has power. If fedex tries to eliminate ISPs who are forced into unionizing or spending big dollars to fight it, fedex will find itself in more legal troubles.

The ISPs who are pro-Fedex are blind to the possibilities so much that they won't even consider the potential pitfalls. They honestly seem to think that fedex cannot succeeed without them. It is funny to see how quickly counter some point when they don't even understand, or misunderstand the points being made. It seems to be a mental block the doesn't allow them to see the logical point that fedex does not really need them at all.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
You are deliberately missing the point. Organizing one ISP at a time and asking for a 50 cent raise won't break anyone. And then the union only needs to organize one ISP at a time, until they have 50% or more of each terminal organized. At that point the union has power. If fedex tries to eliminate ISPs who are forced into unionizing or spending big dollars to fight it, fedex will find itself in more legal troubles.

The ISPs who are pro-Fedex are blind to the possibilities so much that they won't even consider the potential pitfalls. They honestly seem to think that fedex cannot succeeed without them. It is funny to see how quickly counter some point when they don't even understand, or misunderstand the points being made. It seems to be a mental block the doesn't allow them to see the logical point that fedex does not really need them at all.
You think the Teamsters are interested in going 1 ISP at a time?! Oh, my. You are delusional
 

Bounty

Well-Known Member
No it's not. X has no duty to increase pay to an ISP just because his drivers are union. And union scale and benefits will sink the ISP in no time. It won't be worth doing and he'll walk away and file bankruptcy. Enter new ISP, repeat.
That's silly. Repeat.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
You think the Teamsters are interested in going 1 ISP at a time?! Oh, my. You are delusional
An ISP with maybe 10 or more drivers is larger than thousands of small shops they have unionized in the past. And long term, it won't be just one ISP. You know that already and seem to be playing ignorant.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
No it's not. X has no duty to increase pay to an ISP just because his drivers are union. And union scale and benefits will sink the ISP in no time. It won't be worth doing and he'll walk away and file bankruptcy. Enter new ISP, repeat.

If the union gets one ISP to agree to a pay increase of 15 cents an hour, and then uses that to get other drivers to unionize, it is just a matter of time before the ISP asks fedex to increase pay when renegotiating the contract. If the union is smart, they will wait until they have enough strength before making any big move. And the union is not run by fools. Any business with 27 routes and 5 linehaul drivers has a huge target on his back.
 

dmac1

Well-Known Member
The promise of a livable family wage in the future is the goal, as are job security provisions protecting union workers from arbitrary selective punishments and firings. If an ISP makes promises of future raises, or future benefits, or wage increases after a trial period, the unions are there to make sure the workers get what they are promised. As it stands now, an ISP can promise $35 six month period, and then claim it never happened, or that the driver hasn't 'earned' the raise based on standards the ISP can make up on the spot.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
If the union gets one ISP to agree to a pay increase of 15 cents an hour, and then uses that to get other drivers to unionize, it is just a matter of time before the ISP asks fedex to increase pay when renegotiating the contract. If the union is smart, they will wait until they have enough strength before making any big move. And the union is not run by fools. Any business with 27 routes and 5 linehaul drivers has a huge target on his back.
Oh just stop. The union has their own internal battles raging. They don't give a flying friend about organizing more trucking companies. If they were, they could have been applying your ideas for 20 years now.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
An ISP with maybe 10 or more drivers is larger than thousands of small shops they have unionized in the past. And long term, it won't be just one ISP. You know that already and seem to be playing ignorant.
When is the last time the teamsters organized a small trucking company? Google is probably your friend on this one.
 
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