GOP Debate 12-10-11

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by moreluck, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

  2. 804brown

    804brown Well-Known Member

  3. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    You got to be kidding! Ron Paul was the best in that exchange. Gingrichs position is outrageous. There are factions of young aggressive palestinians who hate israel and are launching home made "rockets' into israel that cause cause little or minor damage and occassionally kill a person, but for the most part they fall on empty lots.

    When people use the word ROCKETS they make it sound like they are launching some sophisticated weapon into the sky and onto israeli territory. These "rockets" are unguided pieces of junk that are more of a nussance that a real rocket.

    How does that mean that it is worse than the hundreds killed by the israelis by tanks and soldiers every year? What about the countless number of palestinians captured by the Israelis who are tortured and killed just for information? What about the mosaad carrying out assassinations in muslim countries?

    Israel is just as big a terrorist as the rest of them.

    Israel has been taking palestinian land for decades now. Pushing the palestinian people further and further into the desert and away from land "they" used to harvest and water they used to drink.

    I thought Newt sounded like an idiot. He didnt answer the question and tried to confuse the issue by bringing up another country in his answer.

    If the world hates NEWT, why would any american like him? Did you already forget how BUSH failed and was hated by the world?

  4. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

  5. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Oh, box with a red x.....I'm shakin' now !!
  6. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    That is some reversal on your part as you used to claim they were launching missiles into Israel.

    For other people who may be interested. The rockets which is true are unguided are an effective tool of war. They are used as an area fire type weapon not a point target type of weapon. It is true that they kill and wound people but they are used to restrict movement, damage infrastructure, and cause fear in the civilian population. Overall for the cost they are very effective.
  7. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    Epic failure.
  8. 804brown

    804brown Well-Known Member

    It just proves the newt's ignorance of world affairs. The palestinian arab nationalist revolt against ottoman rule goes back to 1834. One could make a similar case that before 1947, there was no such thing as an israeli people either. Would the newt acknowledge that the american native indians were a made up people too that never existed?? The newt is a fool. Even the hard rtwing in israel accept the 2 state solution.
  9. texan

    texan Well-Known Member

    1. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

    2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the
    establishment of the modern State of Israel.

    3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years
    with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
  10. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    You might enjoy looking at this and there's tons more on the subject if you are willing to look.

    And you can watch the broadcast here.
  11. texan

    texan Well-Known Member

    What do you believe sir? What is within the depth of your heart? I went to the web site as you suggested, but I am so cautious of PBS, as their daily radio news is so anti-Jew and anti-Israel at times.. I am NOT disrespecting you at all, and perhaps if I spent more time on the site I would see your point.
    Just wondering what is your view, not NOVA's. Please share if you would. If you answer your view, I will share more of mine.
  12. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Oh Boy, I can tell right now that you're gonna be fun! :devil3:

    Cutting to the chase, I'm an atheist so I have no vested interest one way or the other but from a purely historical POV, the presentation was very worth while and in learning more from the historical/archeological side, gained a better appreciation of early Israelite culture as to it's origins. Also if the presentation is so anti-jewish as you claim, it sure does interview a number of knowledgeable jewish archeologists and historians not to mention several American and prominent theologians and historians.

    Lastly, it was a retired jewish theologian who told my wife about the program and he highly recommended it so if it's so anti-jewish, ironic a number of jews are in it and it came recommended by one so there you go!

    Also Israeli Professor Shlomo Sands has written and spoken about what he calls, "The Invention of the Jewish Peoples."


    As to your POV and sharing, that's up to you as I never asked for it, nor did I post my POV or do I feel the need to do so. I was just passing on something relevant to the factual claims you posted up in regards to the jewish state and the history of it's people. The program speaks directly to the era in which your claims are based.

    You are free to do with this as you wish. Based on your over reacting hysteria, I'll assume you'll cast it aside as I said you are free to do so.
  13. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    As WK said texan,,, he is an atheist; but he does like to try and debunk what he believes is a mythical christianity. He is a good guy but his faith lies in himself and not in God. His purely "historical" links he provides are hand picked so take him for what he provides with a grain of salt. If you do your own homework, its easy to distinguish.
  14. texan

    texan Well-Known Member

    Not at all sir, it will not be as you imagine. I was just wondering where you stood. I appreciate your reply. I will not attack your views.
    I just do not like all of PBS's views, though many are very informative at times.

    I am a lover of Jewish history, Biblical History, and the Bible itself.

    It is the basis of my my beliefs. Forgive me if I was out of line with your intent of the post.

    I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I just really believe that that land belongs to the Jewish people.

  15. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Just out of my own curiosity, is the belief the land belongs exclusively to the jewish people based purely on the bible or do you hold that view based on secular, historical evidence that stands separate of the bible itself?
  16. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    What was the deal with the $10,000 bet Romney tried to make with Perry?
  17. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Here you go

    Wonder what the line is from Vegas!
  18. texan

    texan Well-Known Member

    RE from WMKAC.."Just out of my own curiosity, is the belief the land belongs exclusively to the jewish people based purely on the bible or do you hold that view based on secular, historical evidence that stands separate of the bible itself?"

    Both. That is a simple answer I know. I could go into great discussion on the secular / current agreement who owns the

    I suppose we also can also discuss this country, the Indians and their land and rights.

    I just know that the Palestine Arabs are a recent claim by the time line of history, and that the Jewish people

    have been there for thousands and thousands of years.

    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  19. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    As to the Indians, discuss away. They got screwed, no argument from me on that.

    As for secular agreements, I'd be interested in your opinion on that. Whenever you want or if you want, throw em' out there for discussion. Be a change of pace for sure!
  20. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    Another website you might also find of interest is "True Torah Jews Against Zionism" and they provide an interesting POV in regards to the issue of Zionism and a Zionist state.