Got rid of ORIAN

[soberups]

Your dispatch sups live by the mantra they are told to live by. They are told what their stops per car should be, and the have to deliver (no pun intedended). I wish that drivers could be on the business end of the conversations if they don't. Remember folks, this Is a business, not a campfire Kumbaya.

We are on the "business end" of those conversations.

We are the ones explaining to customers why their deliveries are 6 hours late, or why they are getting picked up 5 hours before their normal pickup time, or why they arent getting any service at all. We are the ones knocking on doors and waking people up at 9:00 at night. We are the ones getting injured, we are the ones missing time with family, and we are the ones getting harassed by our supervisors over failure to meet your impossible production expectations.

The "conversations" you have in the office regarding fairy-tale numbers are just that--conversations. You are at home having dinner with your family while the consequences of those conversations are being borne out there in the real world by the people you are supposedly "managing".

 

[soberups]

Lets be honest everyone, not to many people go out the door with the truck slam full as described above....most you can walk thru before leaving the building.

It might be that way at the Fantasy Island center, or Clarksville, or other locations of IE world....but it isnt that way in the real world.

Show me a loop with 5 cars that all have walk-thru loads and 9.2 hr days....and I will show you a loop that is about to have one of those routes eliminated 15 minutes before start time, with its packages randomly flung down the middle of the adjacent cars by a preloader whose supervisor is frantically screaming at him to get off of the clock.

 

[soberups]

I agree 100%. I hope those running the show don't try and make it fit 100% of the time... The key is to save time and miles.

Many have said and I agree.... A good system with a poor implementation is a poor result.

From what they showed me, it seems like a good system. I hope we have a good implementation.

Even though I have not seen it, I will accept as a given that the system itself is an improvement over EDD and has the potential to save miles.

I will keep an open mind about it, and when it is installed I will "give it a chance" and judge it on its merits rather than hanging on to any preconceived notions that I might have.

I can gurantee you, however, that I am the only one who will be open minded about it.

The IE people who are implementing it will not have an open mind. They have already decided ahead of time that it will work as advertised, and every driver will be instructed to follow ORIAN's "trace" to a certain percentage (I am assuming 80% since that is the number you have been floating around for some time now). That metric will print out every day on a report, and we will blindly chase that metric with no regard for whether or not any time or miles are actually being saved, and with no regard for any consequences that the metric might have on service.

I dont mean to sound cynical, P-man, but the reality is that...as a company...we are simply incapable of implementing anything properly. This is because logic and common sense cant always be quantified into a metric that prints out nicely on a report.

 

[Re-Raise]

I wish I could positive rep every post soberups makes.

Your experience at UPS mirrors mine and I agree with pretty much every post you make on here.

 

[pretzel_man]

Even though I have not seen it, I will accept as a given that the system itself is an improvement over EDD and has the potential to save miles.

I will keep an open mind about it, and when it is installed I will "give it a chance" and judge it on its merits rather than hanging on to any preconceived notions that I might have.

I can gurantee you, however, that I am the only one who will be open minded about it.

The IE people who are implementing it will not have an open mind. They have already decided ahead of time that it will work as advertised, and every driver will be instructed to follow ORIAN's "trace" to a certain percentage (I am assuming 80% since that is the number you have been floating around for some time now). That metric will print out every day on a report, and we will blindly chase that metric with no regard for whether or not any time or miles are actually being saved, and with no regard for any consequences that the metric might have on service.

I dont mean to sound cynical, P-man, but the reality is that...as a company...we are simply incapable of implementing anything properly. This is because logic and common sense cant always be quantified into a metric that prints out nicely on a report.

I do believe that you will have an open mind. I also guaranty that you will NOT be alone.

You are right. Like with everything else, there will be metrics. Follow ORION some %. I'm not sure what % the people that used it followed, but the important thing is to reduce miles and time.

I think a reasonable question will be asked... If you didn't follow ORION and ran more miles and cost than it said, why???

I also guaranty that what you say will also happen. Some managers (maybe yours) will use it inappropriately. Blindly chase a number. Cause waste and havoc. It WILL happen.

UPS has over 1,000 centers though. Others will use it properly and make reasonable decisions.

I saw a presentation that showed the results of the sites that used it. Very impressive and every one made large gains...

Will it go as well when its finally sent out? I doubt it, but it still looks like the right thing to do.

 

[Re-Raise]

I saw a presentation that showed the results of the sites that used it. Very impressive and every one made large gains...

That is the problem. "every one made large gains". That is like predicting the results of a hypothetical science experiment before the results are in.

I have been here long enough to see many great management experiments pushed down our throats because no one has the balls to stand up to their boss when it isn't working.

Do you remember the push for remote delivery? I do. They were threatening driver's jobs for not bringing enough packages back to meet some center number.

When we explained that we were going right past some of these houses we were told to bring them back anyway.

It all sounds great on the conference call.

 

[soberups]

I

You are right. Like with everything else, there will be metrics. Follow ORION some %. I'm not sure what % the people that used it followed, but the important thing is to reduce miles and time.

I think a reasonable question will be asked... If you didn't follow ORION and ran more miles and cost than it said, why???

The important thing isnt going to be to reduce miles or time. The important thing is going to be justifying the expense of the new system by generating the metric.

Reasonable questions will not be asked, because reasonable answers are not what IE wants to see on the daily report. UPS isnt about "reasonable"; UPS is about blind, unthinking obedience no matter what the consequences might be.

There are an infinite number of variables in the daily routine of a delivery route that would require the driver to deviate from the "optimum" travel path as viewed from Google Earth. I forsee the day when I return to the building and spend 25 minutes arguing and explaining my reasons for supposedly "wasting" 45 seconds by not delivering a stop in the order that ORIAN thought I should.

 

[soberups]

I also guaranty that what you say will also happen. Some managers (maybe yours) will use it inappropriately. Blindly chase a number. Cause waste and havoc. It WILL happen.

P-man,

When is UPS going to implement a program that will empower its local management people to make the correct decisions instead of causing waste and havoc by blindly chasing a number?

You yourself gurantee that it WILL happen. While an Internet forum is certainly not an accurate indicator of nationwide trends, it is pretty obvious to me by reading posts from locations all over the country that idiotic micromanagement and the irrational and destructive pursuit of metrics are not unique to my little bitty building way out here in Oregon.

There is a deep and fundamental flaw in the way that UPS promotes and evaluates the performance of its management people.Fixing that flaw will yield far greater gains in overall productivity and efficiency than cramming yet another technological gimmick down the throats of people who are already being micromanaged to the nth degree.

Find a way to shift us from a culture of fear to a culture of empowerment....and FedEx might as well just close down.

 

[pretzel_man]

P-man,

When is UPS going to implement a program that will empower its local management people to make the correct decisions instead of causing waste and havoc by blindly chasing a number?

You yourself gurantee that it WILL happen. While an Internet forum is certainly not an accurate indicator of nationwide trends, it is pretty obvious to me by reading posts from locations all over the country that idiotic micromanagement and the irrational and destructive pursuit of metrics are not unique to my little bitty building way out here in Oregon.

There is a deep and fundamental flaw in the way that UPS promotes and evaluates the performance of its management people.Fixing that flaw will yield far greater gains in overall productivity and efficiency than cramming yet another technological gimmick down the throats of people who are already being micromanaged to the nth degree.

Find a way to shift us from a culture of fear to a culture of empowerment....and FedEx might as well just close down.

I don't mean to dodge the question, but I don't think its a fair one (at least not how it was stated).

The other part of my quote was that many operations (there are over 1,000) will use the system properly.

I don't think the the BC is really a windo into UPS. The points mentioned here (while accurate) are exaggerated in the scale that it happens. (My opinion). The UPS I see when I walk through operations is when where good people at all levels and in all jobs (management and hourly) are doing the best they can to work together and help UPS and customers.

While my view may be overly optimistic, the views here are overly pessimistic.

Metrics have been mentioned over and over again. ALL metrics have positives and negatives. One needs to understand not only how to calculate the metric, how to improve it, but also what it means. For instance, a metric that says 80% is good, doesn't necessarily mean that 90% is better.

I agree that many management do not understand this, but the world is not coming to an end. I believe that the metrics and attention to detail is why UPS is great. They have existed since Jim Casey's day. He used to talk about watching the little things and the big ones will take care of themselves.

The evaluation of management. It has always been an issue. They have finally given up trying to objectively measure (at least on performance reviews). No metric is perfect, and therefore no evaluation of management is perfect.

Sorry for dodging the question.

 

[stewardtwoniner]

Its kind of fun I guess watching you guys talk about metrics. Once I go to work though the only metric they will apply will be to fill up the cars and send as few cars as possible out on the street. Thats simple trucking company logic that makes them money.

 

[BrownGuy]

My point was that the dispatch sup is not to be blamed for putting work on the car. He/she is told how many stops per car to put on the road. And to not do so could lead to discipline on them.

 

[soberups]

My point was that the dispatch sup is not to be blamed for putting work on the car. He/she is told how many stops per car to put on the road. And to not do so could lead to discipline on them.

And when that stops-per-car metric clearly has no basis in reality...and the resulting dispatch is clearly doomed to fail....does the dispatch sup have the authority to do the right thing and ensure that our customers will get the service that they paid for?

Nope. Service failures can be blamed on the hourly. Failing to generate the SPC metric cant.

 

[Signature Only]

But we do that now anyway.

Most drivers do a quick check after the PCM and put those business/residences that can be delivered with NDA in front. The location of all others that can be accessed are noted and delivered with business.

This varies from day to day so the DOL can't be changed. You never know how heavy NDA/Business will be. We perform the functions of ORION by keeping in mind traffic flow, customer delivery/pickup requests, closures, school schedules and a thousand other things.

We were on stage one, and that is all i can tell you. It factored in mileage. Yes you are still free to make decisions and run the route the "right" way...

It is a decent system for new people yes. But just like EDD, I imagine Stop counts will go up again because UPS will say that we dont have to think.

And the loading system for this sucks... You will be delivering in the morning and have to crawl over boxes to get to your 8000 shelf. Then the next stop will be in 4000, then the next in 1000.... So you are constantly looking for stuff in the morning and cant get into a good rhythm. If they can somehow fix the loading method, it would be and alright system. Better than EDD anyday!

 

[Signature Only]

I see you've spent time in my center!

It might be that way at the Fantasy Island center, or Clarksville, or other locations of IE world....but it isnt that way in the real world.

Show me a loop with 5 cars that all have walk-thru loads and 9.2 hr days....and I will show you a loop that is about to have one of those routes eliminated 15 minutes before start time, with its packages randomly flung down the middle of the adjacent cars by a preloader whose supervisor is frantically screaming at him to get off of the clock.

 

[Signature Only]

That used to be true 3 years ago. Out of the 37 to 44 daily routes, only 4 or 5 have room to walk down the middle. EVERYONE! is loaded to the gills around here.

Lets be honest everyone, not to many people go out the door with the truck slam full as described above....most you can walk thru before leaving the building.

 

[Signature Only]

MAN DID YOU STRIKE A NERVE!

That is our biggest fault.

The degree to which it is addressed will determine our future success.

P-man,

When is UPS going to implement a program that will empower its local management people to make the correct decisions instead of causing waste and havoc by blindly chasing a number?

You yourself gurantee that it WILL happen. While an Internet forum is certainly not an accurate indicator of nationwide trends, it is pretty obvious to me by reading posts from locations all over the country that idiotic micromanagement and the irrational and destructive pursuit of metrics are not unique to my little bitty building way out here in Oregon.

There is a deep and fundamental flaw in the way that UPS promotes and evaluates the performance of its management people.Fixing that flaw will yield far greater gains in overall productivity and efficiency than cramming yet another technological gimmick down the throats of people who are already being micromanaged to the nth degree.

Find a way to shift us from a culture of fear to a culture of empowerment....and FedEx might as well just close down.

 

[MC4YOU2]

GENESIS OF ORION:

When I started as a full time driver, I was either loading my own pc or it was loaded by another knowledgeable driver, who was generally aware of the most efficient route to take to complete the task in the least amount of time and miles. I was taught to deliver certain known customer resis to their workplace if they approved, run a parallel resi street along with a biz section, and it was possible to take lunch and breaks and still bonus most days. The pc was loaded that way and only very minor changes were made to accommodate the process for traffic, weather, resi bulk etc.

This was fine until UPS decided a preload could perform this same task with improved efficiency and at a cost savings. We were told we would be the "first on the road and the last ones off the road" and that we would become better drivers as a result of not wasting all our talent on lowly pc loading. We are currently the "last on the road and the last off the road", so that prediction was a half truth at best. But the preload was a large investment and had to be a SUCCESS at any cost.

Finally after many corners cut, many management members doing the loading, time card coding out sort time to drivers AM time, voila a SUCCESS was born!

Then EDD came along to make it monkey simple to load the cars in "perfect order". Another large investment and one that we all know how well it has gone, ditto the above time saving methods. Mis-loads, mis-spas, ridiculous addressing, multi stops when a biz has many different employee names but really only one stop, one single stop for 10 apts that are really 10 stops. To this day I am still forced to scan my resi EDD for mis-spad biz with addresses that PAS cannot recognize as commercial due to it's inherent limitations. Any human seeing these same addresses would know right away that they are business and not resis, but EDD is a SUCCESS!

Now comes OREO (Onboard Re-shuffling Enhancement Operation) which promises to do the unthinkable; eliminate the wasted time and miles that has been created by the ridiculous virtual looping created by the "wizards" of Microsoft Streets and Trips that see the pc jumping over dead end streets and culdesacs, delivering every street from north to south like we are driving hi-liter pens instead bread wagons, and even jumping over a street only to turn around and drive back to deliver it.

I'm honestly curious how much money UPS has saved from eliminating the original driver load method, considering how little service has been improved with these "improvements", given that each new idea presents a whole bag of problems because in the real world computers can't compensate for many subtle nuances, only big obvious things that they can be programmed to look for, and sometimes not even those consistently.

 

[menotyou]

My point was that the dispatch sup is not to be blamed for putting work on the car. He/she is told how many stops per car to put on the road. And to not do so could lead to discipline on them.

So, is there anyone out there in management who cares about the customers, anymore? I know that the ones I interact with don't care about me or my co-workers. But, the customers pay your wages, too.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

So, is there anyone out there in management who cares about the customers, anymore? I know that the ones I interact with don't care about me or my co-workers. But, the customers pay your wages, too.

Customers? We service customers?

 

[Dustyroads]

If the company really wanted to save miles, they would provide incentives for drivers to do just that. The reality is that there is a disincentive to save miles. There is no system or gps device that can save as many miles as an experienced driver with an incentive to do so.