Greek Riots

[Hubrat98]

I was just wondering what the Brown Cafe community is thinking about the riots going on in Greece? Apparently they want the IMF to get out of their business. However, they can't service their own debt and they owe many European banks a lot of money. The only way they can pay their debts is with an IMF "bailout". To me the Euro seems doomed.

We are watching the fall of a welfare-entitlement state.

BTW the good old USA is the highest contributer to the IMF. 17% of IMF funds come from the US. The next highest is Japan at around 8-9%. How does it feel to help bail-out a country where the retirement age is only 55?

 

[klein]

You have no clue ! Just ask the Germans !!!! 92% of them are mad and p...sd off !!! They would rather let Greece go broke. They are the ones paying most of the tab !

When I see Greece, I'm starting to wonder if that could happen in the USA anytime soon.
Once China cuts of the money.... or once the debt and deficit needs to be put in control.

Wondering if americans will riot in the same matter, with SS, medicare, pensions, etc being cut.
????

Now, thats a good question.

 

[brett636]

This really should be in the Current Events forum. Anywho, this is what happens when you create government obligations that cannot be paid(hello healthcare bill). The Dow, Euro, and commodities markets are in free fall all because government bureaucrats cannot look beyond the next election cycle. The U.S. could very well fall down this same hole in the coming years, but for now its Greece, Spain, Portugal, and possibly Italy whose debt is threatening the continuity of the EU and its currency the Euro. My guess is the Euro will become worthless as EU countries abandon it instead of bailing out its less fiscally responsible(I use that term very loosely) members. Hurray for hope and change!

 

[clueless]

Good points made so far--yes, the U.S. can end up in the same predicament one day--no time soon though...we are still the safe haven for investment $$. When a Chinese official was asked once whether or not China would keep buying our debt or would they pull out of our debt markets, he replied "where else would we go?" That about sums it up. So, the primary problem of financing large budget deficits--paying higher interest rates--is minimized when the demand for our debt instruments remains strong. There was a research article published by the Federal Reserve regarding debt-free borrowing by the U.S. that further mitigates concerns that our debt problem will attain Greece-like proportions in the immediate future. Here it is for those interested:

http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr271.pdf

So, for the time being, we are not in danger of becoming another 'Greece'. Down the road, that's a different matter altogether.

Totally agree about the politicians not being able to look past their next election, but as far as the rest of Europe not bailing out the PIGS--they will do it with strings attached, but I don't see that they have a choice if they want to avoid the contagion it would cause.

 

[cachsux]

You have no clue ! Just ask the Germans !!!! 92% of them are mad and p...sd off !!! They would rather let Greece go broke. They are the ones paying most of the tab !

When I see Greece, I'm starting to wonder if that could happen in the USA anytime soon.
Once China cuts of the money.... or once the debt and deficit needs to be put in control.

Wondering if americans will riot in the same matter, with SS, medicare, pensions, etc being cut.
????

Now, thats a good question.

Nah,We`ll just come up and take it away from you. Start shopping for a new country,buddy.

 

[tieguy]

Nah,We`ll just come up and take it away from you. Start shopping for a new country,buddy.

what a great idea.!!!

 

[Just_another_day_at_work]

I don't know where you got that 55 years?! Seriously.
They are part of the EU so Germany and the others have to suck it up and help. Greece just like most of the EU countries that have too many government control = too many government jobs. It was just a matter of time, they just waited until last minute.
Why is the euro is doomed? The EU economy is smaller than the US. But the currency is stronger and has been on the same level for years.
They will pay back the IMF money in matter of years, once they cleaned up their house.

 

[Babagounj]

I don't know where you got that 55 years?! Seriously.
They are part of the EU so Germany and the others have to suck it up and help. Greece just like most of the EU countries that have too many government control = too many government jobs. It was just a matter of time, they just waited until last minute.
Why is the euro is doomed? The EU economy is smaller than the US. But the currency is stronger and has been on the same level for years.
They will pay back the IMF money in matter of years, once they cleaned up their house.

Greece has had years already, yet they have not done anything to clean up their house, so what makes you think now they will ?

 

[klein]

Greece has had years already, yet they have not done anything to clean up their house, so what makes you think now they will ?

Exactly, thats why the Germans are pi..ed off !!! Germans retire at age 67, and yet need to bail out the Greek pension fund, while they sit on thier at age 55.

 

[Hubrat98]

I don't know where you got that 55 years?! Seriously.
They are part of the EU so Germany and the others have to suck it up and help. Greece just like most of the EU countries that have too many government control = too many government jobs. It was just a matter of time, they just waited until last minute.
Why is the euro is doomed? The EU economy is smaller than the US. But the currency is stronger and has been on the same level for years.
They will pay back the IMF money in matter of years, once they cleaned up their house.

I got the info from CNBC. They also said the same thing Klein said, Germany's age is 67.

Doomed might be to strong of a word, but with so many different countries with differing views on fiscal and monetary policies I see problems in the future. I agree that their currency has been stable for years but this is the first, and most likely not the last time a powerhouse like Germany is going to have to take out their wallets to bail out a country that can't even begin to help itself. Also, the EU had a larger GDP in 2009 than the US according to the IMF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal).

What happens to the value of the Euro when countries like Germany get tired of "sucking it up" and return to their former currencies?

 

[klein]

I got the info from CNBC. They also said the same thing Klein said, Germany's age is 67.

Doomed might be to strong of a word, but with so many different countries with differing views on fiscal and monetary policies I see problems in the future. I agree that their currency has been stable for years but this is the first, and most likely not the last time a powerhouse like Germany is going to have to take out their wallets to bail out a country that can't even begin to help itself. Also, the EU had a larger GDP in 2009 than the US according to the IMF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal).

What happens to the value of the Euro when countries like Germany get tired of "sucking it up" and return to their former currencies?

And if you heard even more news (from last month, when it all began in Greece), you should know that Greece would have never been allowed to join the EU.
But, they fixed thier books. Made it look as if they quailfy (debt to GDP ratio) - turned out to be one huge hoax.
They had more debt and a larger deficit then they admitted.

Thats the other thing that gets Germans mad. It's almost as if Greece joined the EU, just not to go broke, but to suck the EU dry.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Exactly, thats why the Germans are pi..ed off !!! Germans retire at age 67, and yet need to bail out the Greek pension fund, while they sit on thier at age 55.

I feel for the Germans...i have sorta the same issue here in America...im P.Oed that i have to pay for all the freeloaders., illegal immigrants, govt bailouts, idiots mortgages, etc.

 

[cachsux]

Exactly, thats why the Germans are pi..ed off !!! Germans retire at age 67, and yet need to bail out the Greek pension fund, while they sit on thier at age 55.

The nerve of someone to sit on their butt drawing government money while doing nothing.

Pssst,(Whispering) Klein. Don`t let the Germans find out about your extended Canada.gov vacation. They`ll mow right through us trying to get to you.

 

[klein]

The nerve of someone to sit on their butt drawing government money while doing nothing.

Pssst,(Whispering) Klein. Don`t let the Germans find out about your extended Canada.gov vacation. They`ll mow right through us trying to get to you.

First of all, it ain't your unemployment insurance fund, neither the Germans.
If you are really upset about unemployment, then I suggest you go to your local unemployment office and stand at the door, and tell everyone how they have nerves to even be there.
You got 1 out of 10 americans to choose from ! - Now, that's your concerne.

I feel for the Germans...i have sorta the same issue here in America...im P.Oed that i have to pay for all the freeloaders., illegal immigrants, govt bailouts, idiots mortgages, etc.

Atleast it's going to your own nation and citizens.
There are many greeks living in Germany. They are well known for being on the lazy side.

 

[cachsux]

First of all, it ain't your unemployment insurance fund, neither the Germans.
If you are really upset about unemployment, then I suggest you go to your local unemployment office and stand at the door, and tell everyone how they have nerves to even be there.
You got 1 out of 10 americans to choose from ! - Now, that's your concerne.




Atleast it's going to your own nation and citizens.
There are many greeks living in Germany. They are well known for being on the lazy side.

I`m sorry,are you touchy about something?

 

[Just_another_day_at_work]

I happened to see my country join to the EU when it wasn't even close to the "standards". It's politics. The EU countries know that they have to expand the borders and have some unity and for better economy. It's the common sense.
Did you check out who is in the EU too countries like Romania, Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Estonia, Lithuania not even close to Greece. They try to negotiate with Turkey that have a totally different culture and system.
The countries who founded the EU had a choice and vote if they want to add more countries. They made their choice, I don't think they regret it, not even now.
Klein stop the crap. They didn't fix their books, everybody knew they are not qualified but if they don't join it will even takes a lot more time to qualify.

 

[klein]

The European Central Bank expressed concern about Greek finances as early as 2000, noting in a report that Greece’s total debt was far above the prescribed limit.
Still, Athens kept up the pressure to be admitted in time for the introduction of euro notes and coins in 2002. Mr. Simitis, who had taught at a German university in the 1970s, adroitly lobbied German politicians and bankers, mindful of their resistance.
In the end, Greece joined a year earlier than expected, in January 2001. It had — on paper — slashed its budget deficit. And, while it had not reduced its debt enough, it invoked the precedents of other countries, like Italy and Belgium, that had been allowed in despite breaching the limit. The political imperative of keeping the euro on track silenced any critics.
“At the time there were clear indications that the Greeks were forging the data, especially data on deficits to make their public finance situation look more benign than it really was,” said Jürgen von Hagen, professor of economics at the University of Bonn. “But European governments did not want to pay attention. For political reasons they wanted Greece in.”

By 2004, it was clear that the Greek economic data was faulty. The European Union opened its first investigation into Greece’s deficit. Despite evidence compiled by Eurostat, the union’s official statistics agency, that Athens had fudged its numbers, European officials made clear that ejecting Greece from the euro zone was not an option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/business/global/05iht-greece.html?pagewanted=2

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

This editorial cartoon appeared in my morning paper and I am embarassed to admit that I just don't get it. Can someone please explain this cartoon to me? Thanks in advance. Dave.

 

[moreluck]

That's Obama's emblem designed for his campaign. Maybe it's saying he would love it if we were just like Greece and that's where his socialism is headed ??

 

[Lue C Fur]

That's Obama's emblem designed for his campaign. Maybe it's saying he would love it if we were just like Greece and that's where his socialism is headed ??

That is the way i would look at it.