And I'm saying 3 days of training on some rts won't be enough, you will really struggle at first. And you'll still have to deal with the sort or reload, some stations both. That's more like factory work than delivering. If you are say 25, have a crap rt running like a dog, and are unloading containers every day on the sort, you are going to get discouraged very quickly when you find out from others about the pay and benefits. Express is a different animal than Ground. Yes, Express couriers don't have to, on most rts, handle the bulk deliveries that have been shifted over to Ground. But they still handle plenty of freight, some rts are very heavy, and FedEx has made up for the lack of bulk by pushing couriers to do more stops. It gets hectic. I don't buy into the idea that Ground drivers can't handle Express rts. All it takes is a willingness to hustle. But I think the average Ground driver would be surprised by the hectic pace and quickly realize there's more to being an Express courier than he thought. Check out current FedEx I.D. numbers to see the amount of turnover over the years. People who stick with it get "battle hardened". Not everyone wants to deal with it when they can find other jobs that are easier on them for similar money. And since FedEx is holding pay down it's getting easier to find something else for similar pay, especially as the economy improves.
Ground and Express Drivers are EXACTLY Alike!!
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
And I'm saying 3 days of training on some rts won't be enough, you will really struggle at first. And you'll still have to deal with the sort or reload, some stations both. That's more like factory work than delivering. If you are say 25, have a crap rt running like a dog, and are unloading containers every day on the sort, you are going to get discouraged very quickly when you find out from others about the pay and benefits. Express is a different animal than Ground. Yes, Express couriers don't have to, on most rts, handle the bulk deliveries that have been shifted over to Ground. But they still handle plenty of freight, some rts are very heavy, and FedEx has made up for the lack of bulk by pushing couriers to do more stops. It gets hectic. I don't buy into the idea that Ground drivers can't handle Express rts. All it takes is a willingness to hustle. But I think the average Ground driver would be surprised by the hectic pace and quickly realize there's more to being an Express courier than he thought. Check out current FedEx I.D. numbers to see the amount of turnover over the years. People who stick with it get "battle hardened". Not everyone wants to deal with it when they can find other jobs that are easier on them for similar money. And since FedEx is holding pay down it's getting easier to find something else for similar pay, especially as the economy improves.
dakotablue
Member
Wow.. what a response
1) Didn't realize you knew my drivers personally and understood their thought processes. Don't take your personal hards feelings and assume everyone shares them.
2) You don't know what I pay, again responding based on your personal situation
3) I am assuming you are still over the barrel? That's your own fault. Last I checked, you can work wherever you please
4) The decent person comment is not worth commenting on.
5) I'll make a note to adjust my pay so you feel better. Thanks for the tips.
Have I got all the right things to do covered?
Yeah, that about covers it. But don't kid yourself if you are paying $14-$16hr with no benefits while you live it up that your drivers are happy. If they are more power to you. I have my doubts. And if I wasn't a decent person I wouldn't comment on it either.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
This has been covered ad nauseum but I will do it again for your benefit. Why should bbsam or any of the other contractor's pay more than the market would bear? If they can get qualified employees willing to do the job under the terms spelled out to them prior to starting why in the world would they pay more? The last time I saw a ground driver I did not see any shackles or other restraint devices on their body; in other words, this is not indentured servitude and they are free to seek employment elsewhere.
It doesn't matter whether I think the wages are fair and reasonable (they are not) as I am not the one working there.
I also feel that, at $32/hr plus full benefits, UPS drivers are overpaid for a job which requires only a HS diploma and driver's license.
It's not a matter of market forces, it's a matter of conscience. If a business owner/contractor has the ability to pay better and still do well then he should, pure and simple. Where are the stockholders he's liable to? I'm not saying pay them as much as he makes, just do better by them. If a business owner pays the bare minimum he can get away with, then spends the excess on a large house, an extremely expensive car, jewels for the wife, etc while they barely scrape by, he's not a decent person in my book. Some things are more important than having material wealth.
STFXG
Well-Known Member
The opinion of an employee who hasn't taken the risk.
The opinion of an ex-employee who walked away rather than continue to put up with the foolishness. If you can pay yourself $90k a year with a considerable amount left over, if you cared about your employees you would split it amongst them. You'd still make plenty.
STFXG
Well-Known Member
If you owned a contract based business would you pay your employees more, or stash money away in case that contract ends? Save for expansion maybe? Or pay more than is required to operate in employee wages?
It was mentioned that the contractor was making considerably more personally than a UPS driver makes. Seems to me that would be his personal money outside of the money he put back into his operation. So can he not give more to his employees or is the good life more important than the lives of the people who make it happen for him?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
He could very well give more to his employees. There is a good chance that he already does. The point is that he is not required to do anything more that what was agreed upon when the drivers were hired. Whether this makes him a good person or not is irrelevant.
It's amazing how giving better pay so that others can live better is never relevant. If a company CAN'T pay better that's one thing but if the money's there, but if the guy in charge wants to keep as much as possible for himself believe me it's relevant to his employees.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The employees knew the terms and conditions before signing on the dotted line.
Doesn't matter, it's getting harder and harder for people to make a decent living and people with money are exploiting that to the hilt, exacerbating the problem. I'm all for companies making a profit but pushing people to the breaking point so a relative few can live extremely well will eventually ruin this country. And we're getting pretty close now.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I agree---the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" is the widest it has been since the Depression. That being said, is it really up to bbsam to single-handedly reverse this trend?
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
You make me want to bang my head against the wall because you're so clueless. Libertarians are a plague. When you post, I imagine Homer Simpson sitting behind the keyboard wearing a UPS uniform.
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overflowed
Well-Known Member
You can take 35 grand and give the rest to feed fedex couriers for Thanksgiving if that will make you feel better. Welcome back.
It isn't Libertarian, it's American capitalism which is extremely business friendly and fiercely unfair to labor.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Call me what you will----I personally feel that you are a joke and fear that a new courier will read your "advice" and lose their job----but I stand by what I said.
I will simplify this for you. Suppose you hire a neighborhood kid to mow your lawn. The two of you walk around the property so that he knows exactly what needs to be done. You propose and he agrees to be paid $10 every other week. After a few weeks the kid is talking to some of his friends who tell him that they are getting $20/week to do basically the same work. The kid comes to you and tells you what he heard. Do you offer to double his salary or do you stand by your initial agreement?
Ground drivers knew the deal coming in. The financial position of their employer is irrelevant. Should they be more generous? Absolutely. Should they be required to? Absolutely not----the personal assets of the owner of an LLC are irrelevant.
