Gun control advocates in Ferguson MO

oldngray

nowhere special
I would want to know what injuries, if any, the cop suffered. Did he have a concussion or a broken nose from being beat down by a 295 lb man? Did he panic? Was blood running down his face and blinding him? Did he take careful and methodical aim at a man with his hands raised, or did he spaz through an entire magazine while under the influence of adrenaline? Those are all mitigating factors that need to be taken into account before passing judgement.

If the initial shots hit Brown in the chest and then the cop kept firing as Brown rolled to the ground it is possible he may have been hit in the back but the forensics in that situation would be different than if he was shot while running away.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
Someone here posted a radio caller who claimed to know the officer's family. If we take that person's story as valid, it seems the officer is going to claim Michael Brown turned and "bum rushed" him (after he was already shot in the back twice). I'm not sure if forensics can tell if he was doing that while being shot or not. Eye witness accounts might be important here.

If that 290+ pound guy bum rushed the cop after he had been shot in the back the cop would feel his life was threatened so shooting again would probably be justified. If that is what happened. Again, it is all speculation now since the details are still being investigated.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I would want to know what injuries, if any, the cop suffered. Did he have a concussion or a broken nose from being beat down by a 295 lb man? Did he panic? Was blood running down his face and blinding him? Did he take careful and methodical aim at a man with his hands raised, or did he spaz through an entire magazine while under the influence of adrenaline? Those are all mitigating factors that need to be taken into account before passing judgement.
The officer taking shots when blinded by blood? These mitigating factors would get cops convicted most likely.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
If that 290+ pound guy bum rushed the cop after he had been shot in the back the cop would feel his life was threatened so shooting again would probably be justified. If that is what happened. Again, it is all speculation now since the details are still being investigated.
What is this cop shooting? A .22?
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I hope for the for the officer's sake (if he is charged) that this is not going to be his legal defense strategy.
If he is brought up on murder charges then it may very well be his strategy. A murder charge requires proving criminal intent. Fear and panic resulting from a beat down by a 295 lb man is a legitimate mitigating factor. I'm not saying Brown deserved to die and I'm not saying that the cop is blameless, but there is a huge legal grey area between innocence and first-degree murder, which is why we have crimes such as "negligent homicide" and "manslaughter" on the books.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
If that 290+ pound guy bum rushed the cop after he had been shot in the back the cop would feel his life was threatened so shooting again would probably be justified. If that is what happened. Again, it is all speculation now since the details are still being investigated.
Dorian Johnson, Piaget Crenshaw, Tiffany Mitchell, and a yet to be identified twitter user who was posting during the incident, have all said he was shot running away and killed when he turned and surrendered. I'm glad the FBI is involved because turning this over to the St. Louis PD is a joke.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
If he is brought up on murder charges then it may very well be his strategy. A murder charge requires proving criminal intent. Fear and panic resulting from a beat down by a 295 lb man is a legitimate mitigating factor. I'm not saying Brown deserved to die and I'm not saying that the cop is blameless, but there is a huge legal grey area between innocence and first-degree murder, which is why we have crimes such as "negligent homicide" and "manslaughter" on the books.

Manslaughter is a possibility but not Murder 1 or 2. That is if it wasn't a justified shooting.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
The officer taking shots when blinded by blood? These mitigating factors would get cops convicted most likely.
If he was injured and blinded by blood then his thinking may very well have been impaired. It is a documented medical fact that adrenaline interferes with decision-making, judgement and motor skills. Guilty of panic? Yes. Murder? Maybe not.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
Dorian Johnson, Piaget Crenshaw, Tiffany Mitchell, and a yet to be identified twitter user who was posting during the incident, have all said he was shot running away and killed when he turned and surrendered. I'm glad the FBI is involved because turning this over to the St. Louis PD is a joke.

I saw the twitter posts. They were made over an hour after the shooting and seemed a bit fishy as if that person wasn't really a witness. Johnson has been shown to have been untruthful about some details so his testimony is questionable. I don't know about the other witnesses. Again, it needs to be investigated and people need to wait for the facts instead of jumping to conclusions.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
What is this cop shooting? A .22?
Real life is not like TV where people get shot once in the chest and drop dead on the spot. Ever kill anything with a gun? I have. On several occasions I have had 200 lb deer run over 100 yards after getting shot thru both lungs and the heart with a .30-06 rifle that hits with 4 or 5 times the ballistic energy of the 9mm or .40 handgun rounds used by police. People on drugs or adrenaline often don't even know that they have been shot and can continue fighting for several minutes before bleeding out.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Real life is not like TV where people get shot once in the chest and drop dead on the spot. Ever kill anything with a gun? I have. On several occasions I have had 200 lb deer run over 100 yards after getting shot thru both lungs and the heart with a .30-06 rifle that hits with 4 or 5 times the ballistic energy of the 9mm or .40 handgun rounds used by police. People on drugs or adrenaline often don't even know that they have been shot and can continue fighting for several minutes before bleeding out.
The assault in the officer was over. Adrenaline and panic are not appropriate defenses. Isn't it just as possible that a cop got his ass kicked and rather than allowing the courts to handle it decided in a blind rage to take that son of a bitch out? Yeah, that won't go over well either.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
I saw the twitter posts. They were made over an hour after the shooting and seemed a bit fishy as if that person wasn't really a witness. Johnson has been shown to have been untruthful about some details so his testimony is questionable. I don't know about the other witnesses. Again, it needs to be investigated and people need to wait for the facts instead of jumping to conclusions.
The first post was at 12:03 pm. It was not an hour later.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
The assault in the officer was over. Adrenaline and panic are not appropriate defenses. Isn't it just as possible that a cop got his ass kicked and rather than allowing the courts to handle it decided in a blind rage to take that son of a bitch out? Yeah, that won't go over well either.
And that may very well be the case. We don't know at this point. There are any number of plausible scenarios and various levels of criminal culpability on the part of the officer. The biggest problem I have with this whole situation is the immediate and automatic assumption that the officer was motivated by racism to commit murder simply because he is white. That assumption is racist in and of itself, and does nothing but create a spiral of increasing racism, looting, rioting etc. People need to calm down, open their minds and let the facts be determined in a fair and transparent manner.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
And that may very well be the case. We don't know at this point. There are any number of plausible scenarios and various levels of criminal culpability on the part of the officer. The biggest problem I have with this whole situation is the immediate and automatic assumption that the officer was motivated by racism to commit murder simply because he is white. That assumption is racist in and of itself, and does nothing but create a spiral of increasing racism, looting, rioting etc. People need to calm down, open their minds and let the facts be determined in a fair and transparent manner.
I agree, and he should be in jail until then.
 
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