Gunowner quiz on Obama

[over9five]

Fear and more fear...good thing the NRA is there to help out with the fear.

The NRA would support a child with an Ak 47 on a playground full of children.

Give us a break.

Never heard the NRA suggest that. (Could you post a link?) But I have heard Obamas friend Ayers saying he didn't do enough bombings...

Give US a break.

 

[av8torntn]

Cpt. Kirk on gun control.

 

[over9five]

Cpt. Kirk on gun control.

Obamas SC nominees would make sure that only criminals would have guns.

 

[outamyway]

Obamas SC nominees would make sure that only criminals would have guns.

That's part of the problem they don't see. They want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals by enforcing "gun laws". Umm, wait a minute, criminals don't obey the "law". All that's really gonna do is make law abiding citizens defenseless. "NO GUN ZONES" are the perfect hunting grounds. Just ask a real hunter, if deer could shoot back, do you think they'd be hunting deer?

Even if every gun in the country was destroyed "for the children", including law enforcement firearms, do you honestly believe that would stop criminals from doing what they do? A criminal with a *insert tool of choice here* is just as dangerous as a criminal with a gun.

The stuff the media makes up about guns is sickening to anyone who knows better. Children seeking bullets, .50 cal airline snipers, every rifle is an "assault rifle", every pistol is an automatic pistol(or machine pistol, gotta love that one), the gun always just "goes off", even AIR-SOFT guns can be "arsenals". There are people out there scared of guns and never even seen a real one.

I'm sorry but I'd rather even the playing field, people should be learning how to defend themselves instead of thinking the cops are always gonna save the day. If someone is breaking into your house, mugging you, robbing your store, stealing your car(with you in it)and you want to dial 911, it's already too late if they decide to take your life. It's the curl up and cry mentality that's spawned this criminal infestation most of us live with everyday.

PS: Irresponsible gun owners piss me off because they make responsible gun owners look bad. If a kid gets their hands on a gun and shoots them self or someone else accidentally, IT'S NOT THE GUNS FAULT! Kids die all the time because of lack of responsibility of the parent and not just from an unsecured firearm. BAN SWIMMING POOLS! see how dumb that sounds.

 

[govols019]

I would like to add that, although I was never a card carrying NRA advocate to begin with, the loss of an immediate family member who was murdered by an individual known to the family who was on drugs at the time of the murder has most certainly strenghtened my anti-gun (as well as anti-drugs) convictions.

While I sympathize with you I have to disagree on the anti-gun part. I too have had a dearly loved family member murdered. She was stabbed to death over $75. I don't think knives should be banned.

Had she kept a gun under the cash register the outcome may have been different.

 

[soberups]

Fear and more fear...good thing the NRA is there to help out with the fear.

The NRA would support a child with an Ak 47 on a playground full of children.

Give us a break.

Wow. Talk about fearmongering....to claim that the NRA would "support a child on a playground with an AK 47" is utterly ridiculous.

Give us a break.

 

[soberups]

But why you feel the right for any unchecked or unstable "Joe Six Pack" to purchase a weapon with no "cooling off" period or own "fully" automatic machine guns and armor piercing bullets is beyond my logic and the local law enforcement's logic as well.

I already own 12 guns. I fail to see why I should have to have to comply with a "cooling off" period to excercise a constitutional right. Do you also favor a "cooling off" period for a person who wants to join a church, or write an editorial in the newspaper?

As far as "fully automatic machine guns" are concerned, those have been illegal since the mid 1930's, and no one I know is advocating making them legal. Gun-control advocates have been taking advantage of the general public's ignorance and fear of guns to lump any semi-automatic weapon into the "machine gun" category.

And then we have "armor piercing bullets". Virtually any normal hunting rifle....from a 30.06 to your grandpas 100 yr. old lever-action 30-30 Winchester...will penetrate body armor. The body armor worn by police is only designed to stop handgun bullets. Laws that purport to ban "cop killer armor piercing ammo" will in fact make virtually all normal hunting ammuntion illegal, which is nothing more than a back door attempt to ban guns by banning ammunition.

 

[soberups]

I would like to add that, although I was never a card carrying NRA advocate to begin with, the loss of an immediate family member who was murdered by an individual known to the family who was on drugs at the time of the murder has most certainly strenghtened my anti-gun (as well as anti-drugs) convictions.

While I offer my sincere condolences, I must also ask this question. What makes you think that an individual who would break laws against (a) committing murder and (b) posessing drugs would decide to obey a gun control law?

I have never been able to wrap my head around the liberal fantasy that law abiding people are somehow made safer by disarming themselves, giving up their guns, and depending solely on the police to protect them from the bad guys of the world. It is arrogant and condescending to state that I am not qualified or capable of deciding how best to protect myself and my family.

Washington DC has both the highest murder rate AND the strictest gun control laws in the nation. The fantasy is starting to unravel.

 

[outamyway]

As far as "fully automatic machine guns" are concerned, those have been illegal since the mid 1930's,

They are legal to own in some states, but they must be pre ban(Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986) manufactured. There is also a bit of a paper work(and waiting) involved. Because of supply and demand they usually range in price from $3000 to $25000. Some drop in auto sears are available for some firearms. They are considered the machine gun, so the same law(and price) apply. They still must be manufactured and registered before 1986 ban in order to be legal to own.

Full auto pistols like the Glock 18, or the Glock full auto conversion, are not legal to own by civilians under any circumstances. The process for Leo or Military ownership is still complicated.

No civilian can own a machine gun manufactured after the date listed in the 1986 ban.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

While I offer my sincere condolences, I must also ask this question. What makes you think that an individual who would break laws against (a) committing murder and (b) posessing drugs would decide to obey a gun control law?

Sober, thank you both for the condolences and for having the integrity and compassion not to ask me for details. As for your question, you are exactly right but perhaps knowing that such a law is on the books may help me sleep better at night. Dave.

 

[diesel96]

Wow. Talk about fearmongering....to claim that the NRA would "support a child on a playground with an AK 47" is utterly ridiculous.

Give us a break.

Guess you don't recognize sarcasm when you read it.

I already own 12 guns. I fail to see why I should have to have to comply with a "cooling off" period to excercise a constitutional right. Do you also favor a "cooling off" period for a person who wants to join a church, or write an editorial in the newspaper?

A "cooling off" period is not only to wait for results of a thorough background and mental check but also to reduce crimes of passion and desperation. Besides the nutjobs and criminals that purchase guns ilegally we as a country do not have to supply them with guns legally as well.

And then we have "armor piercing bullets". Virtually any normal hunting rifle....from a 30.06 to your grandpas 100 yr. old lever-action 30-30 Winchester...will penetrate body armor. The body armor worn by police is only designed to stop handgun bullets. Laws that purport to ban "cop killer armor piercing ammo" will in fact make virtually all normal hunting ammuntion illegal, which is nothing more than a back door attempt to ban guns by banning ammunition.

I believe your refering to the 2004 Kennedy Amendment on "banning armor piercing bullets"

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]Sen. Kennedy: My amendment will not apply to ammunition that is now routinely used in hunting rifles or other centerfire rifles. To the contrary, it only covers ammunition that is designed or marketed as having armor-piercing capability. That is it--designed or marketed as having armor-piercing capability.[/FONT]

However, the macho NRA members can thank your "wide stance restroom foot tapper hand signaling" Rep senator Larry Craig for successfully fillerbustering your point. I guess the republican led Congress followed Senater Craig's footsteps. ​

 

[soberups]

[Sober, thank you both for the condolences and for having the integrity and compassion not to ask me for details. As for your question, you are exactly right but perhaps knowing that such a law is on the books may help me sleep better at night. Dave.

With all due respect....your being able to sleep at night should not come at the expense of someone else's constitutional rights.

That is the problem with most gun control laws. They serve no useful purpose other than to make a few uninformed people "feel" safer.

 

[soberups]

A "cooling off" period is not only to wait for results of a thorough background and mental check but also to reduce crimes of passion and desperation. Besides the nutjobs and criminals that purchase guns ilegally we as a country do not have to supply them with guns legally as well.

I remember during the Rodney King riots when 911 quit working and the police basically abandoned the inner city. Plenty of law abiding people who wanted to protect themselves went to buy guns, only to discover the joys of a "cooling off" period that guranteed that they would be unarmed while the criminals ran riot.

I ask you again....why should a person who already owns guns have to undergo a "cooling off" period to excercise a constitutional right?

 

[diesel96]

I remember during the Rodney King riots when 911 quit working and the police basically abandoned the inner city. Plenty of law abiding people who wanted to protect themselves went to buy guns, only to discover the joys of a "cooling off" period that guranteed that they would be unarmed while the criminals ran riot.

I ask you again....why should a person who already owns guns have to undergo a "cooling off" period to excercise a constitutional right?

The shooting rampage by a student on the campus at Virginia Tech ring a bell. Wasn't he diagnosed with mental illness that was never forwarded to a nat'l background check data base. He woke up one morning, went to a gun shop in Roanoke,slapped down a credit card and bought a Glock 19 handgun and some ammo for $500 and walk out. The rest is history.

Look, you can already legally posses a gun , and then go out and commit and be convicted of a violent crime or a mental illness, when you get out of the clink, you should not be able to purchase a gun legally or have to wait ten years or whatever the state has declared. You lose that right, isn't that a right wing talking point, take responsibility for your own actions?

 

[outamyway]

isn't that a right wing talking point, take responsibility for your own actions?

Yeah, and nobody taught that to Cho.

 

[soberups]

He woke up one morning, went to a gun shop in Roanoke,slapped down a credit card and bought a Glock 19 handgun and some ammo for $500 and walk out. The rest is history.

Actually, he bought both guns over two months prior to the shooting. He even obeyed Virginia's silly "one gun per month" law. So your "cooling off period" would have served no purpose in preventing the massacre. This guy was a nut job who committed a planned, premeditated murder. The fact that his mental illness wasnt caught by the NICS record check he underwent was due to gaps in the record keeping system that have since been corrected.

Apparently, no one bothered to inform him about the feel-good "no guns within 1000 feet of a school" law that was in effect. The only people who DID obey that law....were his 32 unarmed and helpless victims.

 

[soberups]

Look, you can already legally posses a gun , and then go out and commit and be convicted of a violent crime or a mental illness, when you get out of the clink, you should not be able to purchase a gun legally or have to wait ten years or whatever the state has declared. You lose that right, isn't that a right wing talking point, take responsibility for your own actions?

It is already illegal for felons to posess firearms. That has nothing to do with law-abiding citizens being able to excercise a constitutional right free of government interference.

If a criminal wants a gun, he will get one. Making me undergo a waiting period wont change that.

If you want to discuss improving the system for doing instant background and criminal records checks, that is a whole different matter. But it has nothing to do with arbitrary "cooling off" periods.

 

[diesel96]

Actually, he bought both guns over two months prior to the shooting. He even obeyed Virginia's silly "one gun per month" law. So your "cooling off period" would have served no purpose in preventing the massacre. This guy was a nut job who committed a planned, premeditated murder. The fact that his mental illness wasnt caught by the NICS record check he underwent was due to gaps in the record keeping system that have since been corrected.

Thats not such a silly gun law......Plan ahead for hunting season, buy your arsenal in advance. Same with Target and Clay Pigeon competitions or your just want a gun for home protectection. There are 32 young people dead due to "gaps" in record keeping you say. More like NRA lobbying for more personal privacy be withheld on behalf of gun mfg's. Thats unacceptable this day and age.

Apparently, no one bothered to inform him about the feel-good "no guns within 1000 feet of a school" law that was in effect. The only people who DID obey that law....were his 32 unarmed and helpless victims.

I'm not sure what your saying here....you want to arm college dormitories while they play "beer funnel drinking games" between studies.....????

 

[diesel96]

If you want to discuss improving the system for doing instant background and criminal records checks, that is a whole different matter. But it has nothing to do with arbitrary "cooling off" periods.

Instant background checks will not stop a law abiding man/woman who just flew off the deep end and decides to take a few of us or family members along with him/her to meet our maker.
"Cooling off " periods can reduce the rage, depression or act of desperation, but also the liability of society for contributing the neccessary means of legally obtaining the tool for committing hideous acts of rage, passion, and suicide.

 

[soberups]

"Cooling off " periods can reduce the rage, depression or act of desperation, but also the liability of society for contributing the neccessary means of legally obtaining the tool for committing hideous acts of rage, passion, and suicide.

Maybe you are right.

Lets take it even further, though.

Lets have a "cooling off" period for all alcohol purchases....say 12 days. The overwhelming majority of suicides and murders are cause by people under the influence. The government should do thorough background checks on anyone who wants to buy alcohol to make sure they do not have alcoholism or depression. The goverment should also require every car to have a Breathalyzer in it to prevent drunk driving which kills over 50,000 people per year. The government should also require locking liqour cabinets, with barcodes on each bottle that can be traced to the purchaser. We should let the government come into our homes and inspect how securely we store our alcohol. And, we should allow cities to sue winemakers, breweries and distilleries for all the damage caused by the illegal use of their products, with the stated goal of putting them all out of business. Who cares about personal freedom when we are saving lives?

Lets also have a "cooling off" period for buying knives, ropes, or fuel that could be used to start a fire. What the hell, lets just have a cooling off period for every single item that could concievably be used as a weapon or to hurt ones self. We would all be a lot safer if we just let the government take care of us and protect us from ourselves.