Have we open the door for production harassment?

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
The "door" to production harassment was already wide open when I started doing this job 26 years ago. The technology has advanced and there are a bunch of new acronyms, but the bottom line hasnt changed at all. The allowances arent fair; they never have been fair; and they were never intended to be fair in the first place. What they are and always have been intended to do...is to create a "standard" that can only be met by working off of the clock. Complaining about UPS's time allowances is no different from complaining about the odds at a casino game like roulette or blackjack. The house sets the odds and makes the rules, and the rules are designed to mathematically gurantee that the house always wins in the long run.
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
The "door" to production harassment was already wide open when I started doing this job 26 years ago. The technology has advanced and there are a bunch of new acronyms, but the bottom line hasnt changed at all. The allowances arent fair; they never have been fair; and they were never intended to be fair in the first place. What they are and always have been intended to do...is to create a "standard" that can only be met by working off of the clock. Complaining about UPS's time allowances is no different from complaining about the odds at a casino game like roulette or blackjack. The house sets the odds and makes the rules, and the rules are designed to mathematically gurantee that the house always wins in the long run.

I just can't believe how bad its been getting. Been out until 9:00PM every night this week!
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
Next time management tells you your "paid over", open your check in front of him and say "Not true, I was paid the correct amount for every hour I worked.".
On another issue, here is a big problem I have with these "lock in rides". They first compare your multi-week average to a fluffed 3 day ride, based on that ride the try to impose a fictitious production standard with it. I started filing grievances on article 6. As a refresher, here it is:

ARTICLE 6.
Section 1. Extra Contract Agreements
Except as may be otherwise provided in this Agreement, the Employer agrees not to enter into, or attempt to enter into, any agreement or contract with its employees, either individually or collectively, or to require or attempt to require employees to sign any document, either individually or collectively, which in any way conflicts with the provisions of this Agreement. Any such Agreement or document shall be null and void. Any such agreement or document may not be placed in an employee’s file or used by the Employer as a basis for discipline or used in connection with any disciplinary proceeding, nor may any such agreement or document nor the contents thereof be divulged to any person or entity.
 

TxRoadDawg

Well-Known Member
Understand one thing, there is not now and probably never will be a cause for termination based on numbers. Dont mistake that for they cant fire you, they can fire you for anything they want. But it wont stick. Managements numbers are just that managements numbers. They deducted 4 seconds per stop just for the key fob. As long as you are doing what you are supposed to be doing the numbers matter not!
Spend $5,000 to install a system to save 5-10 seconds per stop. at 100 stops per day thats 1-15 minutes per day @ (round number) 30 per hour or 3-7 dollars per day. should only take 3-6 years to break even IF the truck runs 5 days a week EVERY week ROFLMAO. People still wonder why I laugh every time the fotm flips over to how to make up for paying me that extra 15 minutes I had to use to finish something I was told to. Shame since I refuse to give time and don't believe any of that just leave early come in late tommorrow caca
 

728ups

All Trash No Trailer
Next time management tells you your "paid over", open your check in front of him and say "Not true, I was paid the correct amount for every hour I worked.".
On another issue, here is a big problem I have with these "lock in rides". They first compare your multi-week average to a fluffed 3 day ride, based on that ride the try to impose a fictitious production standard with it. I started filing grievances on article 6. As a refresher, here it is:

ARTICLE 6.
Section 1. Extra Contract Agreements
Except as may be otherwise provided in this Agreement, the Employer agrees not to enter into, or attempt to enter into, any agreement or contract with its employees, either individually or collectively, or to require or attempt to require employees to sign any document, either individually or collectively, which in any way conflicts with the provisions of this Agreement. Any such Agreement or document shall be null and void. Any such agreement or document may not be placed in an employee’s file or used by the Employer as a basis for discipline or used in connection with any disciplinary proceeding, nor may any such agreement or document nor the contents thereof be divulged to any person or entity.
that's pretty good! We have used Article 37 grievances on 3 day 'lock ins' and have forced the company to use Telematics records to show that as long as the driver is working safely and by the methods it dosent matter what the time issue is
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
that's pretty good! We have used Article 37 grievances on 3 day 'lock ins' and have forced the company to use Telematics records to show that as long as the driver is working safely and by the methods it dosent matter what the time issue is
Thanks man. That's why it kills me when some people on here complain about contract enforcement. It's like they just stomp their feet and give up. It's not really a difficult thing.
 

nicky

Well-Known Member
Stink hit the nail on the head as to the 3 day rides. Those are extra contractual agreements and not allowed. Also when they are doing them come in early and watch your truck, our sups are notorious for going in and sorting/fixing the loads early. Also ask the loader if anyone was in the car. If you can get video of the sup doing it you are now bringing a nuke to a knife fight.
 

Upsmule

Well-Known Member
The "door" to production harassment was already wide open when I started doing this job 26 years ago. The technology has advanced and there are a bunch of new acronyms, but the bottom line hasnt changed at all. The allowances arent fair; they never have been fair; and they were never intended to be fair in the first place. What they are and always have been intended to do...is to create a "standard" that can only be met by working off of the clock. Complaining about UPS's time allowances is no different from complaining about the odds at a casino game like roulette or blackjack. The house sets the odds and makes the rules, and the rules are designed to mathematically gurantee that the house always wins in the long run.

Absolutely. But, a standard isn't a standard at all if it changes daily. Clearly, they don't care how late anyone is out and on the clock or they'd hire more people and put in more routes. Clearly....it's cheaper to have a few guys out until 9pm every night than to hire more employee's and have everyone back by 6:30-7. If they want to bury you and scream about safety, let them, and just be safe.
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. But, a standard isn't a standard at all if it changes daily. Clearly, they don't care how late anyone is out and on the clock or they'd hire more people and put in more routes. Clearly....it's cheaper to have a few guys out until 9pm every night than to hire more employee's and have everyone back by 6:30-7. If they want to bury you and scream about safety, let them, and just be safe.

You are absolutely correct, they don't care but what they don't understand is the more work I get the slower I go.
 

born2Bwild

Well-Known Member
thank you guys for all the responses. I am not worried about my job, Integrity is what I do all day long every day, follow the methods and work hard just like all of my associate drivers who are head of their families hardworking decent peoples. the allowance were never fair to begin with, I never looked to make bonus just worked hard . In the last meeting was threatened with discipline if I don't increase SPOR ( this is the second time she has raised the SPOR on me in the last 3 months). I have no choice but to go thru their discipline, how else they will they be convinced that I am doing all I can, I am sure they did their observations, read and analyzed the telematic reports. I hate to go thru this but I have no choice. the whole thing is discussing me
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
thank you guys for all the responses. I am not worried about my job, Integrity is what I do all day long every day, follow the methods and work hard just like all of my associate drivers who are head of their families hardworking decent peoples. the allowance were never fair to begin with, I never looked to make bonus just worked hard . In the last meeting was threatened with discipline if I don't increase SPOR ( this is the second time she has raised the SPOR on me in the last 3 months). I have no choice but to go thru their discipline, how else they will they be convinced that I am doing all I can, I am sure they did their observations, read and analyzed the telematic reports. I hate to go thru this but I have no choice. the whole thing is discussing me

Document EVERYTHING and every conversation. Also file harassment grievances. Start the paper trail before they do.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
In the last meeting was threatened with discipline if I don't increase SPOR ( this is the second time she has raised the SPOR on me in the last 3 months). I have no choice but to go thru their discipline, how else they will they be convinced that I am doing all I can, I am sure they did their observations, read and analyzed the telematic reports. I hate to go thru this but I have no choice. the whole thing is discussing me

Its not your job to "convince" them, and it shouldnt be your concern whether they believe you or not.

None of this is personal, its just a numbers game. If they do this to 60 drivers in a building and can intimidate 10 of them into skipping their lunches and breaks while entering an hour in the board in order to make the harassment stop, that equals 10 hours of free labor which is the equivalent of eliminating an entire route every day. Trust me, they have already done the math. Once they eliminate one route, they ratchet up the pressure to eliminate another one. It will never stop. Your management team's MIP bonus, as well as their job security (or lack thereof) is a direct reflection of how many employees they are successful in screwing out of a lunch every day. Raise the SPORH, tighten the allowances, threaten discipline. Raise the SPORH, tighten the allowances, threaten discipline. Repeat ad infinitum. Its standard management protocol, the very foundation of UPS's business model, and its been this way for decades. Get used to it, it will never change. The only choice you have in the matter is whether or not you choose to cave in to the pressure and donote your lunch and breaks to the company, or whether you choose to grow a pair and endure the harassment in order to be fully paid for your time. Its not ever going to go away. Skipped lunches are like heroin to management, one is too many yet a thousand will never be enough, so the sooner you can wean them off of the habit that they are trying to maintain at your expense, the better off you will be.
 

Tough Guy

Well-Known Member
maybe someday technology will advance so far that we'll be given literally "0 seconds". Get called in "It shouldn't take 2 seconds to do that, what's going on". Maybe when they invent some sort of teleportation technology. heh.
 

nicky

Well-Known Member
If they start coming after you get a harassment grievance in immediately... It allows you to argue everything after that is retaliation... As I said in another thread, all you can do is what you can do safely. If they dont like it invite them to get on the car. Make sure you work on your methods and use them. If you are good on your methods and slow there isnt a thing they can do....
 

BMWMC

B.C. boohoo buster.
p.s

It's not a loop-hole. Drivers need to understand THEY CAN'T BE FIRED FOR NUMBERS! It boggles my mind how drivers can not comprehend this. Management uses harassment to push drivers trying to get them to go faster while giving them the impression their job is it stake, IT ISN'T! It isn't until you start getting into accidents/injuries. Keep your same pace and stay safe.

Oh yes you can. They just find something else to write you up for but we all know its about the numbers. You've been working for UPS long?
 

BMWMC

B.C. boohoo buster.
If they start coming after you get a harassment grievance in immediately... It allows you to argue everything after that is retaliation... As I said in another thread, all you can do is what you can do safely. If they dont like it invite them to get on the car. Make sure you work on your methods and use them. If you are good on your methods and slow there isnt a thing they can do....


No no no. Never file a grievance for anything. Talk about putting a bulls eye on. Just ask to review you data like GPS, delivery records, pickup logs and ask where they think you can improve. Always put the ball back in there court. With all the stuff they can measure you have a built in excuse on paper.. Use it.
 

BMWMC

B.C. boohoo buster.
Its not your job to "convince" them, and it shouldnt be your concern whether they believe you or not.

None of this is personal, its just a numbers game. If they do this to 60 drivers in a building and can intimidate 10 of them into skipping their lunches and breaks while entering an hour in the board in order to make the harassment stop, that equals 10 hours of free labor which is the equivalent of eliminating an entire route every day. Trust me, they have already done the math. Once they eliminate one route, they ratchet up the pressure to eliminate another one. It will never stop. Your management team's MIP bonus, as well as their job security (or lack thereof) is a direct reflection of how many employees they are successful in screwing out of a lunch every day. Raise the SPORH, tighten the allowances, threaten discipline. Raise the SPORH, tighten the allowances, threaten discipline. Repeat ad infinitum. Its standard management protocol, the very foundation of UPS's business model, and its been this way for decades. Get used to it, it will never change. The only choice you have in the matter is whether or not you choose to cave in to the pressure and donote your lunch and breaks to the company, or whether you choose to grow a pair and endure the harassment in order to be fully paid for your time. Its not ever going to go away. Skipped lunches are like heroin to management, one is too many yet a thousand will never be enough, so the sooner you can wean them off of the habit that they are trying to maintain at your expense, the better off you will be.

Stock reply to the bosses...

I'll try and do better today.

Next day...

I'm am always looking for ways to be more efficient.

Next day...

I'll try to do better today...

Next day...

You get it? Just repeat what they want to hear. How hard can it be?
 
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