20 years safe driving, resently I was reviewing my safety record with an sup. and was informed that I was charged with an "avoidable accident". The accident happened 5 years ago, the problem I have is (1) hit from behind, (2) called center team, pkg car was not damaged,tractor-trailer that hit me was not badly damaged, we were in morning traffic not going fast, thank God no one was seriously injured. Talked with union b/a to see if I could get it repealed or exsponged from my record, well I was told that UPS deems whats "avoidable and Unavoidable, I had proper following distance, communicated in traffic. Was not even informed by sup. that I was charged. What can I do? if anything.
Hit from behind" charged with avoidable accident."
- Thread starter metro-dvr
- Start date
Lol, no kidding!
Your BA is correct. You could fart behind the wheel, and UPS could charge you with some kind of accident. I know you are a professional driver, and don't want this crap on your record... But this is the New UPS. You have to start saying "Who cares!". This "accident" does not affect your pay or your insurance rates. That is OUR bottom line.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
We had a driver charged with an avoidable while he was out of the car, making a delivery. He was parked properly along the road with his 4 ways flashing. The other driver died, so his account of the accident was not much help. HE had also had 20+ years of safe driving. Not much could be done about it. They are the ones that make the rules that we have to live with.
It is funny though. We also had another driver that had a roll away, and he was not charged with an avoidable. So the level playing field is not so level when it comes to at fault accidents.
As far as UPS's response to the accident, while it probably wont have a bearing on the record being removed, I would find it interesting to find out if you had a follow up on the accident. At the very least, they should have had a meeting with you within 10 days or so informing you of the decision.
Just on a side note, the way you posted almost made it sound like they just now charged you with the accident that happened 5 years ago.
d
It is funny though. We also had another driver that had a roll away, and he was not charged with an avoidable. So the level playing field is not so level when it comes to at fault accidents.
As far as UPS's response to the accident, while it probably wont have a bearing on the record being removed, I would find it interesting to find out if you had a follow up on the accident. At the very least, they should have had a meeting with you within 10 days or so informing you of the decision.
Just on a side note, the way you posted almost made it sound like they just now charged you with the accident that happened 5 years ago.
d
EAT MY OVERALLOWED
Veteran
Let me tell you something. If that happened to me and UPS declared that I was responsible and at fault for someones death, I would have called that persons family immediately and informed them that UPS has decided I was at fault. I'd tell them to sue UPS for every cent they can since they have admitted fault.
Who cares your not going to get a bonus when you retire for not have a accident in your records. I look at it like this whether avoidable or not UPS will always say the driver could have done something different to eliminated the risk that was taken and caused the accident.
I totalled a P300 2 years ago during a ice storm and nothing happen went back to the building and got another car and got to ride around with my sup. On the other hand I know drivers that broke a guys rear tail light or scratch someone bumper and got taken off the road for the 20 day accident investigation period as punishment.
I totalled a P300 2 years ago during a ice storm and nothing happen went back to the building and got another car and got to ride around with my sup. On the other hand I know drivers that broke a guys rear tail light or scratch someone bumper and got taken off the road for the 20 day accident investigation period as punishment.
Returntosender
Well-Known Member
grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
But, a very good idea!!
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
1. You do not have a contractual right to safe driving awards or recognition.
2. UPS no longer gives out safe driving awards.
3. UPS can "charge" you with an "avoidable" accident at any time, for any reason, whether an accident occured or not.
4. There is no rational or logical procedure in place for defining an accident or determining the avoidability of said accident. These decisions are entirely subjective and made at the whim of the management person in charge.
5. Any disciplinary action that the company tried to pursue against you for being rear-ended would not be upheld.
Your best course of action is to focus on driving safely and to accept the fact that being "charged" with an "avoidable" accident has nothing to do with your abilities and everything to do with blind luck. As long as you know you are a safe driver, you shouldnt give a damn what your management thinks.
2. UPS no longer gives out safe driving awards.
3. UPS can "charge" you with an "avoidable" accident at any time, for any reason, whether an accident occured or not.
4. There is no rational or logical procedure in place for defining an accident or determining the avoidability of said accident. These decisions are entirely subjective and made at the whim of the management person in charge.
5. Any disciplinary action that the company tried to pursue against you for being rear-ended would not be upheld.
Your best course of action is to focus on driving safely and to accept the fact that being "charged" with an "avoidable" accident has nothing to do with your abilities and everything to do with blind luck. As long as you know you are a safe driver, you shouldnt give a damn what your management thinks.
cachsux
Wah
There was a fatal in our building and the driver was not charged for that very reason. He was not at fault be UPS was not going to help fan the flames in any way.
QKRSTKR
Well-Known Member
The company can call it whatever it wants. As long there is no discipline taken the union couldnt care less. Very few are deemed unavoidable anymore. Hindsight is 20/20, and they always see it hindsight. Say u hit a fixed object and of course its your fault, here we get a union letter.
grgrcr88
No It's not green grocer!
Same here, the only intersection accident in the history of our building that was deemed unavoidable.
Driveslayer
Well-Known Member
I was broadsided by someone gunning their car backwards out of a driveway. He was charged and fined for the accident and I was totally cleared. I had some neck injuries and received a out of court settlement from a lawsuit. UPS received thousands for vehicle repair(some of which was not needed like total new paint job, all new tires and wheels, etc). I also got a warning letting and was charged with a avoidable accident.
I now slow down sometimes from 45mph speed limit to 15mph to clear a blind resi driveway which is common on my route. UPS is now threatening me with OJS rides because my over allowed has increased. I choose the OJS rides versus not clearing intersections(all resi driveways are intersections and all intersections accidents are avoidable).
I now slow down sometimes from 45mph speed limit to 15mph to clear a blind resi driveway which is common on my route. UPS is now threatening me with OJS rides because my over allowed has increased. I choose the OJS rides versus not clearing intersections(all resi driveways are intersections and all intersections accidents are avoidable).
UnconTROLLed
perfection
I've never seen or heard of such a thing.
I was charged with an avoidable when someone backed into me, while I was legally parked and not even near the package car and the steward nor the safety snitch made any effort to help me argue my case regarding the accident.
cachsux
Wah
UPS claims he to be at fault, not self admittance. Plus a lawyer would be happy to give him immunity for his assistance.
EAT MY OVERALLOWED
Veteran
Fine with me. Judging from that scenario and the limited information we have on it, the driver doesn't seem to be at fault. If the company wants to reassess the accident and place blame on their employee they should be more than willing to accept the consequences that comes along with being guilty or being at fault. I don't think the action that I suggested would be evil in any way either, it's the right thing to do. If UPS as a company takes the viewpoint that their employee was the cause of a fatal accident but only behind closed doors will they admit that -- that is WRONG.
Years ago I was involved in an accident very similar to this. I was out in some rural area I did not know at all, I left the truck on the road with the four ways on because as you know the first rule of backing is ....:::drumroll::.... DON'T BACK! A guy decided to try to squeeze between the truck and oncoming traffic going about 25mph. He wasn't injured but the front passenger side of his SUV was pretty much destroyed and my P800 didn't have a scratch. Most drivers will know how this played out -- UPS blamed me for an avoidable accident. Rather than bicker with management, I simply told them that since their accounting of the accident is basically the exact opposite of the police report that I would be calling the man and informing him to contact his insurance agency since UPS is taking the stance that the company is at fault. Funny how quickly their attitude changed and it became an unavoidable accident.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Charging a driver with not avoiding an accident is much different that being responsible for an accident. The two are not at all interchangeable, but yet too many of you seem to think they are.
UPS prides itself in training (note I said training) drivers to avoid most accidents that regular folks get into. This knack for avoiding an accident is the reason there are drivers that have millions of miles without an accident. They see and anticipate what is ahead, and adjust for it.
That being said, again I can not stress it enough. The playing field is not level. What is most obvious an avoidable accident for one, gets overlooked for another driver.
I always wanted a panel to decide on the merits of the information. Not some management person that allows his personality to conflict with doing his job. But they dont want to let go of the power.
d
UPS prides itself in training (note I said training) drivers to avoid most accidents that regular folks get into. This knack for avoiding an accident is the reason there are drivers that have millions of miles without an accident. They see and anticipate what is ahead, and adjust for it.
That being said, again I can not stress it enough. The playing field is not level. What is most obvious an avoidable accident for one, gets overlooked for another driver.
I always wanted a panel to decide on the merits of the information. Not some management person that allows his personality to conflict with doing his job. But they dont want to let go of the power.
d
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
You are being confused by two different words. Responsible means that you are entirely or partially at fault for the accident. Avoidable to Ups does not necessarily mean at fault, but it does mean that as a professional driver you could have done something to reduce the chances of what caused the accident.
Although I do admit,we do go overboard on some of these decisions on avoidable. We need to look at it from the drivers perspecitive and our training for both safety and production. You can't look at it only as a Monday morning quarterback.
Like most drivers, I believe that the "avoidable, but not at fault" line is classic UPS doublespeak.
If the police say it's the other guys fault, WHY argue?? Why does UPS want to dis it's drivers ANY and EVERY chance they get??
Don't ever come up to me and say "Sorry Over, we know it wasn't your fault BUT we're charging you with an avoidable".
CHARGING me even though it's not my fault? Then why use the term "charging"?
Sorry, any of you who buy the "avoidable, but not at fault" crap are drinking too much brown koolaid.
If the police say it's the other guys fault, WHY argue?? Why does UPS want to dis it's drivers ANY and EVERY chance they get??
Don't ever come up to me and say "Sorry Over, we know it wasn't your fault BUT we're charging you with an avoidable".
CHARGING me even though it's not my fault? Then why use the term "charging"?
Sorry, any of you who buy the "avoidable, but not at fault" crap are drinking too much brown koolaid.
Re-Raise
Well-Known Member
They absolutely charge you for everything at our center now and that is a given. I couldn't care less about the safety awards.
My question to all of you is can they fire you for an accident? I am looking at my contract right now and it says
"It is understood that it is the practice of the Employer to discharge any Employee who has a runaway accident, three avoidable accidents within a twelve-month period, or who fails to report an accident"
They "fired' a driver at my center for running over a dog this year. He was back after two days.
Do they ever actually fire someone and make it stick for a minor or for that matter a serious first accident?
My question to all of you is can they fire you for an accident? I am looking at my contract right now and it says
"It is understood that it is the practice of the Employer to discharge any Employee who has a runaway accident, three avoidable accidents within a twelve-month period, or who fails to report an accident"
They "fired' a driver at my center for running over a dog this year. He was back after two days.
Do they ever actually fire someone and make it stick for a minor or for that matter a serious first accident?
