According to Barnyard, yes. Even tho YOU hit HIM, it is his fault.
Using Barnyards logic, if an airplane fell out of the sky and hit your package car it would be your fault because you parked in the way.
Hit while parked, new rant, join in
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According to Barnyard, yes. Even tho YOU hit HIM, it is his fault.
Using Barnyards logic, if an airplane fell out of the sky and hit your package car it would be your fault because you parked in the way.
I have to respectfully disagree, blocking a driveway is necessary to make some deliveries. I try to not park where someone makes an exit from their drive across the street. But I make sure there are no moving heads in the cars there aka scanning steering wheels, etc.
In residential areas, and not ones with an acre each, there is no "completely" safe place to park. Everyone who ever hit me was not paying attention, that is not something I can fix. Outside of slapping people upside the head and telling them to pay attention to driving, there is only so much I can do as a professional driver.
I was hit at a red light while parked with my e brake on. Not my fault. At a stop sign, while I was stopped. Not my fault. Parked 1 inch from the curb, a driver across the street, jumped in his car, while on a phone, backed out hit me never saw me. He admitted he was at fault. Except the driver was not the same guy who came out to talk to my sup. What could I say? I have to be there every day, do I want to irk the guys in the area, No I dont. I heard through the grapevine that even my center manager stood up for me, with the dm, dont know its true but I heard it from a reliable source. And his answer was Where do you think the driver should have parked? There was no where, I picked the best possible point while trying to make a reasonably quick and efficient delivery.
We are not give leeway to make random judgements, we dont have time to analyze tho death every single time we park. just quick in a hurry judgements and most of us do the best we can. Sometimes all day would not be enough to find a way to safely park.
In residential areas, and not ones with an acre each, there is no "completely" safe place to park. Everyone who ever hit me was not paying attention, that is not something I can fix. Outside of slapping people upside the head and telling them to pay attention to driving, there is only so much I can do as a professional driver.
I was hit at a red light while parked with my e brake on. Not my fault. At a stop sign, while I was stopped. Not my fault. Parked 1 inch from the curb, a driver across the street, jumped in his car, while on a phone, backed out hit me never saw me. He admitted he was at fault. Except the driver was not the same guy who came out to talk to my sup. What could I say? I have to be there every day, do I want to irk the guys in the area, No I dont. I heard through the grapevine that even my center manager stood up for me, with the dm, dont know its true but I heard it from a reliable source. And his answer was Where do you think the driver should have parked? There was no where, I picked the best possible point while trying to make a reasonably quick and efficient delivery.
We are not give leeway to make random judgements, we dont have time to analyze tho death every single time we park. just quick in a hurry judgements and most of us do the best we can. Sometimes all day would not be enough to find a way to safely park.
AKCoverMan
Well-Known Member
Of course we can reduce HWP by thinking about where we park, and we should. But also of course we will be faced everyday with situations where we have to pick between several not so good spots to park.
One business we pick up from is on a busy street with no on street parking, you have to pull into thier small parking lot. Now your choices are often a.) park behind a row of cars who are parked nose in to the building, blocking them in or b.) do a blind side back into a narrow parking spot between two parked cars...if one is available.
If you choose a. and get HWP it is gonna be avoidable (not a legal space). If you choose b. and nick a car it is gonna be avoidable (backing to blind side). It's totally a judgemet call and you can lose either way.
You could find a legal spot if you park around the corner a block away and walk back to the business to pick them up. They have nothing most of the time and a single package once in a while but about once a month have a buttload. So now you would have to go back for a hand cart and then wheel it all back to the PC. In the winter this would mean wheeling the hand car DOWN THE STREET as there would be snow berms and fences in the way if you tried to go thru the neighboring businesses. Now only would this not be safe, but you would use so much time that you would miss pickups on the end of the pickup run.
Blocking driveways? Of course I would rather never block a driveway. In the winter on streets that grow narrower and narrower as the plowed snow berms build up you can either park not blocking a driveway and far enough into the street so as to have a way out of the PC and along the siide of the car to get to the driveway but probably blocking the street or you can stop with the car door at the driveway and leave an open lane on the street. Again if you get HWP in either case they can find a reason to call it avoidable.
So I do the best I can. If I have to take a parking position that is less than perfect I am thinking about what cars might be the threat. Scanning steering wheels, looking for drivers. In the blocked driveway situation, I am looking at the cars for occupants or watching for the garage door to open. Happens once in awhile. I go to the car and get the drivers attention.
It's all about making the best decision you can and then looking for the possible threats. If I do all I can to avoid the idiots who can't see the big package car and I one day still get HWP, I'll sleep OK that night whether or not it is declared "avoidable".
One business we pick up from is on a busy street with no on street parking, you have to pull into thier small parking lot. Now your choices are often a.) park behind a row of cars who are parked nose in to the building, blocking them in or b.) do a blind side back into a narrow parking spot between two parked cars...if one is available.
If you choose a. and get HWP it is gonna be avoidable (not a legal space). If you choose b. and nick a car it is gonna be avoidable (backing to blind side). It's totally a judgemet call and you can lose either way.
You could find a legal spot if you park around the corner a block away and walk back to the business to pick them up. They have nothing most of the time and a single package once in a while but about once a month have a buttload. So now you would have to go back for a hand cart and then wheel it all back to the PC. In the winter this would mean wheeling the hand car DOWN THE STREET as there would be snow berms and fences in the way if you tried to go thru the neighboring businesses. Now only would this not be safe, but you would use so much time that you would miss pickups on the end of the pickup run.
Blocking driveways? Of course I would rather never block a driveway. In the winter on streets that grow narrower and narrower as the plowed snow berms build up you can either park not blocking a driveway and far enough into the street so as to have a way out of the PC and along the siide of the car to get to the driveway but probably blocking the street or you can stop with the car door at the driveway and leave an open lane on the street. Again if you get HWP in either case they can find a reason to call it avoidable.
So I do the best I can. If I have to take a parking position that is less than perfect I am thinking about what cars might be the threat. Scanning steering wheels, looking for drivers. In the blocked driveway situation, I am looking at the cars for occupants or watching for the garage door to open. Happens once in awhile. I go to the car and get the drivers attention.
It's all about making the best decision you can and then looking for the possible threats. If I do all I can to avoid the idiots who can't see the big package car and I one day still get HWP, I'll sleep OK that night whether or not it is declared "avoidable".
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Look, this whole debate is easily explained by the old analogy of "trying to have your cake and eat it too".
That's what the company is doing here.
They want to hold us to "perfect trip" production standards, all the while holding us to the utmost of 20/20 hindsight safety guidelines.
It's a lose/lose situation if the driver buys into the hogwash.
Concentrate on safety and methods and take the money.
It's the only option in my opinion.
That's what the company is doing here.
They want to hold us to "perfect trip" production standards, all the while holding us to the utmost of 20/20 hindsight safety guidelines.
It's a lose/lose situation if the driver buys into the hogwash.
Concentrate on safety and methods and take the money.
It's the only option in my opinion.
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browniehound
Well-Known Member
WOW! I thought I was the only one who tought this way! I have to run my 'add' backwards in EDD and it must ruin my trace #'s. Also, when I get an add from and add/cut, its put into my EDD in very varied and odd places. Instances like section 1000's in which 20 house calls bury my airs and makes it difficult to find many of my commits. I aslo get the add put in my DOL where 3000 would start but are located in the high 7000's. Yes, the HIN #'s in my board are the high 7's, but the come after my first 3 or 4 3000 section stops. I don't get it? Then, I will get them in my 8000's but put at the beginning of my EDD?
What ever happened to stop for stop and no sorting, LOL!!
Then again, sometimes they put it in the right place!?!?!
I don't get it?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Re-Raise
Well-Known Member
Barnyard.. What if you back your truck into the center to be unloaded after your route, and while you are checking out I back in next to you and hit your package car?
Would you be charged with an avoidable accident because your vehicle could have been parked further over?
Would you be charged with an avoidable accident because your vehicle could have been parked further over?
barnyard
KTM rider
I did not say that blocking a driveway would put a driver AT FAULT.
I did say it would AVOIDABLE.
Learn how to read.
barnyard
KTM rider
That used to happen quite a bit at our center.
The person that did the hitting was always charged, the other person, never. As it should be.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
I'm glad to see ya'll rejecting the common sense of a fellow driver poster instead of just management posters.
Reassuring in a way!
I don't think what's being rejected is common sense, rather the nonsense of being subjected to the progression of discipline on the guise of avoidability.
Re-Raise
Well-Known Member
Because by charging a person with an avoidable accident you are finding "fault" in something he did or didn't do.
They can say anything could have been avoided in hindsight.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
Why is it so hard to entertain the concept of fault=discipline, avoidable=learning experience.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
There are all sorts of things at UPS and in life that I don't agree with.
This logic has been there for decades and has been agreed upon by the Union for decades.
Systems don't change the rule just because people don't like them.
Get the Union to get it changed in the contract.
I see this thread as simply blowing off steam - please resume.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
There are all sorts of things at UPS and in life that I don't agree with.
This logic has been there for decades and has been agreed upon by the Union for decades.
Systems don't change the rule just because people don't like them.
Get the Union to get it changed in the contract.
I see this thread as simply blowing off steam - please resume.
Don't ask, don't tell???
Sound familiar?
In other places rules and policies are often changed because people don't like them.
What better reason?
iowa boy
Well-Known Member
To get this thread back on track, we had a driver hit while parked making a residential delivery. PC was parked legally, flashers on, not blocking anything. Person across the street comes out of their house, gets into car, backs out of their driveway, into the street, and never saw the PC. As of right now, classified as an unavoidable as driver did everything he was trained to do.
barnyard
KTM rider
There are all sorts of things at UPS and in life that I don't agree with.
This logic has been there for decades and has been agreed upon by the Union for decades.
Systems don't change the rule just because people don't like them.
Get the Union to get it changed in the contract.
I see this thread as simply blowing off steam - please resume.
For me, it is just like at AA:
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.
I will NEVER change UPS' classification of avoidable/unavoidable. I know that and accept it.
It's either that or quit.
