HOFFA

[soberups]

I need to point out two simple facts that are apparently being overlooked here;

We voted for Hoffa---twice

We also voted to accept the current contract.

I am always amazed at the number of people who vote on the contract based solely upon how much of an hourly raise they are getting. They dont attend any union meetings or take the time to educate themselves about what it is they are voting for. Then, when the contract gets ratified and some of the less favorable aspects of it finally come to light, they complain about the very thing they voted for.

As far as Hoffa Jr and his paycheck are concerned...you should compare his salary to that of any upper level corporate attorney. He isnt a truck driver. When it comes to negotiating multibillion dollar contracts with huge corporations, I want a lawyer to do that, not a truck driver.

If you dont like the contract or the guy who negotiated it...vote them both down. Just remember that you are only going to get what you are willing to strike for.

 

[705red]

Sober its not just about bargaining a good contract, its also ablout enforcing the contract. You say that you want an attorney to do your contract not a truck driver, Who better to know what you deal with on a daily basis?

A truck driver working for 30 years at ups will no alot more of our issues compared to some suit who occasionally shipped an envelope through us!

 

[Kevin211]

I think it's time for Hoffa to retire and let someone else have the helm for awhile, I believe that you become set in your ways and just "ride the wave" when in office for more then 5 years.
I also feel that we need to grow the union in the next few years or our "bennies" will not be around when we retire. Now that I work for UPs and have the time to become more active in the union I plan on doing so, because I feel that the Union needs to make a strong come back, or we all will die a slow death

 

[soberups]

Sober its not just about bargaining a good contract, its also ablout enforcing the contract. You say that you want an attorney to do your contract not a truck driver, Who better to know what you deal with on a daily basis?

A truck driver working for 30 years at ups will no alot more of our issues compared to some suit who occasionally shipped an envelope through us!

Whoever bargains for us is going to be sitting across the table from a bunch of high-priced management attorneys and accountants. Do you think UPS is going to have some on-car supervisor representing them at the negotiations? No, they are going to have the best minds that money can buy. I am a truck driver, and I dont want a truck driver going up against them any more than I would want a truck driver to do brain surgery on me.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I agree "bad data often gets posted here," but I don't see what's bad about jware's post.

Normally, there is no need for a Cost-of-Living formula in the first year of a contract because the cost of living is known to the negotiators while they are negotiating the Year One raise. In effect, the cost-of-living raise is built in to the Year One raise. But no one can know what the cost-of-living will be in Year Two, Three, Four etc., so a formula is inserted to automatically augument future raises with a cost-of-living adjustment.

The last raise of the previous contract was ONE DOLLAR. ($1.20 for certain part-timers.) One would expect the first raise of this new contract would be more that that to begin with, AND would include and additional amount to deal with current inflation. Maybe A DOLLAR THIRTY-FIVE or so. Instead, that was negotiated away, (as was the part-timer's "catch-up" raises,) and we got just THIRTY-FIVE CENTS on August 1, 2008.

I stand by what I said. The cola language is the same. Perhaps my head really is in the sand, but COLA and general wage increases are two different things. If you can't make it on our wages, I am sure there are many jobs available paying more.

 

[tieguy]

You have to love it when management comes to the union president defense. Helps with his credibility!

I slammed one and said the other has a chance to be the first to not get charged with something. That is hardly coming to anyones defense.

 

[705red]

Whoever bargains for us is going to be sitting across the table from a bunch of high-priced management attorneys and accountants. Do you think UPS is going to have some on-car supervisor representing them at the negotiations? No, they are going to have the best minds that money can buy. I am a truck driver, and I dont want a truck driver going up against them any more than I would want a truck driver to do brain surgery on me.

Would you like an attorney doing brain surgery on you?

 

[705red]

I slammed one and said the other has a chance to be the first to not get charged with something. That is hardly coming to anyones defense.

You happened to slam the one that cared about the teamsters and the members yet you come to the defense of the company suck up! Hoffa junior is falling badly at filling his daddy's shoes!

 

[Babagounj]

Jimmy two has a chance to be the first teamster president to survive his term without any indictmans or jail time.

Sorry some one already broke that record, Billy McCarthy the last old guard elected.

 

[JonFrum]

I stand by what I said. The cola language is the same. Perhaps my head really is in the sand, but COLA and general wage increases are two different things. If you can't make it on our wages, I am sure there are many jobs available paying more.

The COLA language is the same, (nobody said it changed,) but this time, its earliest effective date has been delayed to more than 19 months after the start of the new Contract.

 

[tieguy]

You happened to slam the one that cared about the teamsters and the members yet you come to the defense of the company suck up! Hoffa junior is falling badly at filling his daddy's shoes!

whether hoffa one cared about the teamsters or not is irrelevent. He has his place in history as the guy that brought the mob in.

the other guy may get voted out for doing a crappy job thought the members seem to continue to support him. He also has a shot at being the first one to leave office without some type of indictment.

Those are the facts and hardly a defense of either one of them. Unless your proud of the mob coming in...oops you live in chica.....ah never mind.

Red its not however an uncommon tatic for hardcore tdu nazi's to try to paint Hoffa2 as a company man. Maybe thats what you guys needed. I know my region no longer uses contractors execpt for peak. Carey could never get us to stop.

 

[tieguy]

Sorry some one already broke that record, Billy McCarthy the last old guard elected.

Technically you're probably correct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._McCarthy

"He twice faced charges that he had improperly awarded a printing contract to a printing house owned by his son-in-law, once in February 1991 and again in June 1991. Each time, the union's executive board agreed to put off a vote, and McCarthy retained his office."

Its also believed McCarthy agreed to federal oversight of the union to save his own behind.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,973244-2,00.html

"Old-school Teamsters sometimes grumble that McCarthy sold them out to the feds to save his own skin. Maybe so, but he and his cohort have nonetheless spent $12 million of the union's money to litigate the settlement at each step -- even to the point of preventing a court-appointed elections officer from getting office space in their Washington headquarters."

So you have me on semantics. It would however be nice to see one retire that is squeaky clean.

 

[sortaisle]

All your smart remarks what would you have with out the union or the hoffas youwould have a dhl contract oh thats right they dont have one do they? get your heads out of your ass and thank a retired driver from abf yellow roadway ups and all the others who fought for you and me we have great pay benifits its not the companys fault the economy is crap WAKE UP.

Piss off buddy, a cheat is a cheat. You don't double standard the people you represent. If the economy is in the crapper, then why did he take a cola raise and barter ours out? Double standard plain and simple. No one is taking anything away from the union and the fight they've put up, but what Hoffa did isn't right. If he was a politician running for office in your state, he would have been crucified in the media for that.

 

[tieguy]

Sober its not just about bargaining a good contract, its also ablout enforcing the contract. You say that you want an attorney to do your contract not a truck driver, Who better to know what you deal with on a daily basis?

A truck driver working for 30 years at ups will no alot more of our issues compared to some suit who occasionally shipped an envelope through us!

An Obvious answer to such a question might be:

I want a truck driver driving my truck
and a lawyer arguing law?

 

[705red]

An Obvious answer to such a question might be:

I want a truck driver driving my truck
and a lawyer arguing law?

As obvious as wanting a upser to run ups?

 

[tieguy]

As obvious as wanting a upser to run ups?

Not the same. The two previous examples were jobs being performed by those with the job expertise. In this example you're using an organizational association.

 

[705red]

Not the same. The two previous examples were jobs being performed by those with the job expertise. In this example you're using an organizational association.

What expertise are you talking about?

When you are addressing concerns dealing with your work place standards you want someone that understands from experience, not someone that happened to hear two dock workers talk about it.

You should consult an attorney obviously but to have an attorney negotiate on your behalf over someone with the experience is just wrong.

The attorney is there for legal mumbo jumbo, when the union member is there to say its impossible for a driver to carry that 600lb safe up 3 flights of stairs by himself. Do you think the attorney would know that theres only 1 driver per truck?

Are you saying that our ceo has expertise in ups?

 

[tieguy]

What expertise are you talking about?

When you are addressing concerns dealing with your work place standards you want someone that understands from experience, not someone that happened to hear two dock workers talk about it.

You should consult an attorney obviously but to have an attorney negotiate on your behalf over someone with the experience is just wrong.

The attorney is there for legal mumbo jumbo, when the union member is there to say its impossible for a driver to carry that 600lb safe up 3 flights of stairs by himself. Do you think the attorney would know that theres only 1 driver per truck?

Are you saying that our ceo has expertise in ups?

Red,
Just a little advice that legal mumbo jumbo can destroy your entire life and livelyhood if you get the wrong guy speaking it for you. If you're more comfortable having a truck driver represent you in court then feel free.

 

[705red]

Red,
Just a little advice that legal mumbo jumbo can destroy your entire life and livelyhood if you get the wrong guy speaking it for you. If you're more comfortable having a truck driver represent you in court then feel free.

Tie but when you negotiate a contract you are not in court. You wouldnt use a truck driver in court, so why should you use an attorney to represent the membership in talks?

 

[tieguy]

Tie but when you negotiate a contract you are not in court. You wouldnt use a truck driver in court, so why should you use an attorney to represent the membership in talks?

I don't know why do you use an attorney to represent you on some issues?