how/can you fix a time study

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by LeddySS98, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. LeddySS98

    LeddySS98 Member

    I have a new route now that was slapped together about 6 months ago... its considered a baseline so parts of the route stay fairly consistent day to day but then other parts make pretty wild changes, new areas each day basically. this new route they made has never been time studied, i just pull off others work code areas. Some days I'm 1.5 hrs over and some days i'm 1.5 hrs under... on the over days I make the bad driver report, the on road gets on to me telling me this and that, but on the days i bonus 1.5 hrs they go in and fix the numbers and take away the bonus pay.

    can i fight this?

    Today they ran this new computer program that showed my entire day and how i did for each stop faster/slower than what the computer says i should do it in... right off the bat the computer says i was allowed 12 minutes for my first stop and i did it in 7 so i started with a 5min advantage, as the day went on I gained more and more time. When the day was 70% complete I was a head of my plan day with 1.12 hrs... at which time i start my air run where i drive to a town about 20 miles away do 15 pickups on the way there and back and i recover that towns air from their center. It's 30 min. drive on the freeway to get to there and when i make the pickup there program shows that im now down to .67 hrs ahead of the plan and as the rest of the day continues I continue to fall behind the planned day... The speed limit is 75 and the truck will do 78-80 with a good tailwind and its down hill. It takes 30 minutes to get there but the computer says in order to run scratch from town to town i have to be there in .05 min. so it takes 30 and the computer says i should be able to do it in 3:angry: It's right there in front of them on their program showing them that it's not my fault... and they just shrug their shoulders and tell me there's nothing they can do about it...

    Can i fight this... or do you just get paid for the time worked and they dont 'have' to pay you the bonus?
  2. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    1. You are not contractually entitled to bonus. You are only entitled to be paid the appropriate wage for all hours worked.

    2. There is no way to fix a flawed timestudy. It is chiseled in stone and the company will not correct it unless the error favors the driver.

    3. The study was never intended to be fair or realistic in the first place. It was intended to create a "standard" that, in most cases, can only be met by working off of the clock. UPS's entire business model for many decades has been designed around coercing, harassing, and intimidating as many drivers as possible into skipping their lunches and breaks in order to meet an impossible standard.

    4. The "new program" they showed you is little more than an excercise in wishful thinking on the part of your management team. The computer is nothing more than a box full of wires and microcircuits that sits in an air-conditioned room someplace and spits out numbers according to whatever flawed formulas it is programmed to use. As you have discovered, the statistics it generates quite often have absolutely no basis in reality. You work in the real world. The computer doesnt.

    Want some advice? Do not allow their computer to be the judge of your performance. Dont look at their daily reports, dont buy into the "allowances" they try to hold you to, and dont get caught up in trying to play their number games. The game is rigged and its designed to screw you over. You owe the company a fair days work for a fair days pay, you owe the customers the service they are paying for, and you owe it to yourself to do the job in a safe and correct manner. If you can look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and know that you gave 100%...then whatever their computer says is a bunch of bullsh&t. Whether or not your management team is happy with the numbers their machine spews out is simply not your problem.
  3. Upsdriver88

    Upsdriver88 New Member

    That's all well and good, but it doesn't stop the company from overdispatching drivers everyday. The Union has to come up with a better plan to stop the forced overtime than re-negotiationting the 9.5 language after the contract was voted on. Nobody in their right mind wants to be on the road in a brown package car after 2000 hours every night.
  4. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I would have to agree with sober on this one. I am not sure there is anything you can do about management fudging the numbers to take away your bonus, but the problem is its their numbers and most of the time they are simply not realistic. While I am an air driver I am constantly being held to these "figures" and according to their pie in the sky numbers I should be off the clock at the same time I am still making scheduled pickups in a town 20 minutes away. Do your job to the best you can and don't sweat the numbers, management are the ones who live and die by them. You just need to work as instructed and nothing more.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  5. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

  6. steve 2014

    steve 2014 New Member

    Bonus drivers are the very reason were all working 10plus hrs aday, why would ups hire drivers whene you have 5 or 6 runners running 2 to 3 hrs bonus. get rid of bonus and the runners will slow down
  7. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Eva Mendez Has A Nice (_!_)

    I am not allowed to up your reputation for this one until I "spread it around" to others.
  8. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I'll take care of that for you.
  9. stucrew

    stucrew Member

    If the report puts you at bonus then they later go in and change numbers then they are stealing from you. You need to get copies of the report showing you being bonus then get a copy of that same day being changed to take time out of that bonus calculation. Get these everyday that you run bonus for a week or 2 and then go to the Local. You are entitled to bonus if their reports reports the numbers that way. If the numbers are changed and you have the paperwork to prove it then you can prove they are stealing from you and they will be FIRED!!!! and you will be in a place to SUE!!! and settle for a piece of their pie. Get a pocket notebook and keep track of what you summary in the DIAd says at the end of the shift. Also your lunch and break times and left bldg and return to bldg times and punch out times. If you can keep track of how many stops in each area number that is great. They will always try to say that you can deliver the same day but have the numbers way off because of different area # standards.
  10. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Please quote the exact contract Article that supports your statement.

    You wont be able to, because it doesnt exist.

    "Bonus" is paid at the sole discretion of the company. Time allowances, standards, and area studies can be altered at the whim of the company. The flip side to that coin is that the union does not recognize those allowances or standards as being a basis for discipline.

    We are entitled to be compensated for all hours worked at the contractually agreed upon rate of pay. No more, no less.

    If you want to have a long and successful career as UPS driver while still maintaining your sanity, you will need to develop the ability to detach yourself from any concern over whether or not you are "overallowed" or "making standard".

    The job takes as long as it takes. Whether or not you management team likes the numbers that print out on the paper should be irrelevant to you as a driver. If they dont like the numbers they can change them. Its their computer, not yours.
  11. UpsguyDGAF

    UpsguyDGAF Member

    Anything over 2 hours is investigated by MGT
  12. Damangp

    Damangp New Member

    Stop making management intimidate you guys and also don't make deals. Just come in and do the best you can if you get discipline for anything your sup puts on you then it's your own fault for not speaking up. Read your union book , don't try to break there numbers so they can like you because when you get hurt they seem to forget how much sweat you drain for them. They bleed brown sadly and dont appreciate there hard workers in the first place. Work safe and stay healthy don't worry about there numbers worry about yourselves.
  13. LagunaBrown

    LagunaBrown Well-Known Member

    Did you know if your late you dont get paid bonus.
  14. bigblu 2 you

    bigblu 2 you Active Member

    you only" fix" things when they are broken .therefore you will need to run that time study into the ground like the titanic into an ice burg.just sayin..
  15. 2Slow

    2Slow Member

    If you want to be happy at UPS, you have to let it go. It is 100% impossible to do package car without catching some "excrement" from management periodically. It can't be done, not much point in trying.

    What you should do is work like they are with you everyday and...
    When they are with you, work like you normally do. If you chat with the receiving guy, do it with the boss along. If you ask about the kids, say hi to the pretty girl, go to the restroom 9 times, whatever. Will you catch "excrement"? You bet, but they won't do more than that for a little customer time.

    What happens, all too often, is guys kill themselves when the boss is along, then catch all kinds of grief for not meeting "demonstrated performance standards".

    And don't be afraid to file harassment if they get ugly, just don't make idle threats. If you're gonna do it, just do it. If they know that messing with you is unproductive then they are less motivated to mess with you.
  16. Barnwell

    Barnwell New Member

    Are these time studies regulated by the Department of Transportation? Package Car Drivers hold a DOT Medical Examiner's Certificate, So? Why Don't the DOT regulate these Time Studies. Until the DOT Certify these times studies, Pay no attention to them, Honest days work for an Honest days pay!

    Wonder if UPS Management understands, what being Honest Means?
  17. slantnosechevy

    slantnosechevy Active Member

    They are honest only when its in their favor.
  18. 247spies

    247spies New Member

    Nope..... Just do it as long as it takes. IE rarely will fix anything and you'll find they just get changed as we have virtual time studies now.
  19. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Why does anyone even concern themselves with "production" anymore? It is clear that the company has been slowly removing any chance of breaking a route through the eliminations of credits for actions. As an example, how many of you know there is no longer any credit for over 70 lbs?? How many of you know that there is no more credit for driver assist? How many of you know that there is no credit for leads?

    If you are putting these codes into your diad, it doesnt matter, they dont count towards your day. Unlike the old days, where we got credit for separating service levels on pickups, lifting heavy pkgs, helping other drivers and such, the company has taken everything away and made breaking route impossible.

    The only ones breaking routes today are those that are cheating. Our average in my particular center is 1.5 hours in the hole and the company wants us at least a 1/2 hour in the hole. They believe that is acceptable.

    Cheaters will blow up pickup piece numbers, run through lunch and breaks, double park, park in red zones, run on grass, sign for packages themselves, drop COD's and come back later for checks, speed down roads, DR in wide open areas, drive with the bulkhead open or no seat belts(non telematic trucks). This is the only way to break a route in todays UPS.

    If you did everything by the book, youre looking at an 11.5 hour day. Folding in left side mirrors at every stop, walking behind the truck and every stop on the way out, walking to the front before getting back in, indirect attempts at 3 homes, walking, no grass or red zones, no speeding, obtaining proper signatures, proper out of sight DR's, waiting for checks, accurate pickup counts, no double parking and parking on clear curbs, no three point turns in middle of streets. If you do this all day, your day just got extended.

    When the sup is on car, you will find that they "discourage" you from doing these things. Thats right, discourage. They know it slows you down, but you have to stand firm and simply ask them if thats policy?, they say yes, and you say, then let me do my job.

    They freak out when you fold in the left mirror at every stop, they freak when you wont double park, they freak when you wont park in red zones, they freak when you wont come back for checks, they especially freak when you do three indirect attempts.

    But why worry about production? It isnt possible, so why stress.

    We have a saying here in So Cal. "55 saves lives, but 54 pays more".

    If the company wants to take away our incentives for giving a 110%, then they can pay 47.50 an hour for overtime. Its alot cheaper to pay us straight time for production for an hour than it is to pay us 2.5 hours overtime to do the same work.

    Some idiot sitting in a board room with a bunch of engineers who never did the job are killing the companies productivity.

  20. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Well, you finally got it right here! Good job!

    Peace and the sound of dumping used oil down your neighbor's back yard.