How Long will UPS last, as the Co We Know?

[klein]

I can go along with this to the degree that it works when we are all able to work as a team.
The main problem though with that is the team is disentegrating with every new push towards progress through dominance and discipline.
Any group accomplishes it's ultimate best when everyone works toward a goal together, understanding their role and focusing all their energy toward that.
Hourly employees are being harassed to accomplish their goals instead and therefore are unable to actually totally focus on them, because a large part of attention has to go toward how to deal with the harassment silmultaneously.
When will UPS learn that most of us want the company to be successful anyway, and would gladly work towards that end without all the fireworks, and what we really want are realistic goals and mutual respect?

Darn well said !
We us drivers go home daily, thinking another great succesful run, done on time, worked my butt off.
But, yet, next morning pcm - you got to do better and faster. Or even worse, - you get called into the office again, for some kind of wrong, such as closed during lunch hr attempt, (even though it's a hairsalon) that is closed all day.
Seems you NEVER get credit for a job well done ! They lack bigtime on that.

 

[filthpig]

There are only 2 real players in the package industry and UPS and FDX will both survive. The Post Office is going bye bye in the next 10 years or so. They are not equipped to handle parcels and the cost to make that change will not happen and the carriers cant handle the work anyway. THE REAL SCARY THING FOR UPS is the fact that BOOKS,MOVIES,MUSIC,Software,etc. will soon be a digital file and no longer a package. We are talking alot of volume that will be gone soon and thats going to hurt. THE GM comparison does not work. They made a product and we provide a service. GM tried to do too many things and got slammed by globalization and with no car buyers in the this economy its bye bye time. Buying a car and airline travel used to be a purchase that Americans didnt think twice about but those days are gone. Getting a package from Sprint,Target,TMO,HSN, Express Scripts, Amazon, etc, will continue because thats how America gets their stuff. Sure somebody could come along and make a run again like DHL but in a shrinking economy thats hear to stay why would they be succesful when DHL couldnt do it with their foot in the door already and billions of dollars from the German Post Office.

Don't count on the book volume going anywhere, but yeah, movies, software, and music will soon likely be package free. People who read will always like to have a book. It's a psychological thing with me. I like books. I HATE that "kindle" thingy.
I digress. Anywho, I think the company began a turn for the worse after the strike. Management seemed to become vindictive. PAS didn't help any because it dumbed down the preload. No one knows anything anymore.

 

[klein]

There are only 2 real players in the package industry and UPS and FDX will both survive. The Post Office is going bye bye in the next 10 years or so. They are not equipped to handle parcels and the cost to make that change will not happen and the carriers cant handle the work anyway. THE REAL SCARY THING FOR UPS is the fact that BOOKS,MOVIES,MUSIC,Software,etc. will soon be a digital file and no longer a package. We are talking alot of volume that will be gone soon and thats going to hurt. THE GM comparison does not work. They made a product and we provide a service. GM tried to do too many things and got slammed by globalization and with no car buyers in the this economy its bye bye time. Buying a car and airline travel used to be a purchase that Americans didnt think twice about but those days are gone. Getting a package from Sprint,Target,TMO,HSN, Express Scripts, Amazon, etc, will continue because thats how America gets their stuff. Sure somebody could come along and make a run again like DHL but in a shrinking economy thats hear to stay why would they be succesful when DHL couldnt do it with their foot in the door already and billions of dollars from the German Post Office.

Postoffice isn't going anywhere. They just really need to re-think and re-invent, like we did !
Saturday delivery, thats been gone here for decades ! 60's or early 70's.
Door to door delivery, thats gone. New districts only have so called "Supermail boxes" like I do.
I have to walk up to the main street to get mine.
And a lot of Canada Post is now privatized (post offices at 7/11), carriers on a contract, etc.

I can't see fedex or UPS delivering postcards, greeting cards, letters,bills, etc.

Worldwide mail will always exsist. Period.

 

[david cassin]

hoaxster ups in ireland since 1985 my old firm walsh western were the agents.i meant in the usa since day one and been through the depression..we'll ride the storm..

 

[NHDRVR]

It died the day we went public.

Great point. The company only had to answer to itself until it went public and frankly was stronger than it is now. We didn't have as much 'cash on hand' as we do now but I would like to bet that we wouldn't be making the cuts that we are currently using if we were still a private company.

 

[senjax]

I ponder about this same exact question. Will we go the way of GM? The biggest, baddest most profitable automotive company in the world. No one can take us down was the sentiment of both management and union workers. Toyota, was well Toyota in their eyes, a tiny Asian car company. The world knows how this eventually played out.

I hope and pray, UPS does not turn into GM. It's said that for a buss to stay in buss, it must constanly reinvent itself. Can we say that our current UPS is reinventing itself? If so, how can UPS actually do this? Cutting routes is probably one way they're accomplishing this but this action is inventing other problems.

Members here have said that UPS, will go to the union and ask for workers to take a pay cut in order to stay in buss. A pay cut of say 2 dollars might fly, but what happens when we see profits rise?

UPS drivers have reached, in my opinion, peak output. The company must find another way to reinvent itself, because these particular workers have reinvented themselves four fold.

I dont think you can compare UPS to GM or any other union organization, where they work on a production line. Its not the same thing
What people have to realize is, we are not an option for business we are necessary, we are the arteries for business. all transportaion industries are. Yes people have other options, but what are they really? A new company could start up sure, but you have to think about what it takes to get a pkg from CA to NY. It still amazes me. who else could build what we have?.. healthy competition is good. I hated to see DHL go away, really. UPS will be around forever though They may get bought, but they will never be matched. This Economy thing will be over before to long and things will slowly get back to normal and beyond. Why. and here is the final piece of my lecture for today. New idiots are born daily! People who will live beyond there means, go in to debt for everything, and use credit as a means of survival. as long as people are doing that, UPS will thrive.

 

[anonymous6]

It died the day we went public.

I agree, It made it's bed.

 

[Catatonic]

I agree, It made it's bed.

... so now we lie in it.

 

[pickup]

... so now we lie in it.

alongst side some bedwetters.



I say, upon reading that line, cachsux is already working on one that involves dutch ovens

 

[dannyboy]

Where to begin, so many good posts.

First, while I do agree that a certain part of UPS died when we went public, we had to go that way to purchase other companies that have been re-branded UPS. So while it hurt, it had to be.

But its time to go back to private.

As far as UPS lasting, the REA example is a good one. As has been mentioned, they were too big to fail. But what caused their failure is a bit complex.

For one, they lost sight of the really important part of the equation, the customer. They began to be too focused on internal issues instead of taking care of the customer and their needs. They also got a bit complacent with unproductive parts of their business, and didn't attempt to grow the business into other areas of the market.

UPS has its problems. Being too internally focused is one. To me, they are too focused on the ants crawling under the door carrying away crumbs, and letting the thief enter through the door to carry away the loaf.

But that will too change. There is only so much tweaking of the numbers anyone can do before the thing breaks.

Personally, I see UPS coming out of this recession on top. Better than FedEx. And the postal service will be broken up before long, and I see UPS pulling down that segment of the business.

Letters as we know it will be a thing of the past, but there will always be a need for legal communications, and I think UPS is in the cat birds seat to take that part over.

So while the near term might be a bit rocky as we try the art of micromanaging, the long term looks great to me.

d

 

[dannyboy]

One last thing I forgot to mention.

GM is brought up here as an example. And I would throw ford in there as well.

Both companies are American Icons of a large business that does (did) very well. They had their days of dominance in the business. But that all changed when people were given a choice.

And when given a choice, Detroit did not listen or react in enough time to see a large part of their business wash away.

They did not make cars that lasted in the 70's and 80's, compare that with the Japanese car makers that entered this country then. I remember when Honda's were a joke at the Chevy dealer.

But those companies provided a car that was reliable, had a very good ride, and was very competitive in price, something that the big three could not do.

So they lost market share.

How are we doing when it comes to getting, keeping or losing market share?

d

 

[whiskey]

One last thing I forgot to mention.

GM is brought up here as an example. And I would throw ford in there as well.

Both companies are American Icons of a large business that does (did) very well. They had their days of dominance in the business. But that all changed when people were given a choice.

And when given a choice, Detroit did not listen or react in enough time to see a large part of their business wash away.

They did not make cars that lasted in the 70's and 80's, compare that with the Japanese car makers that entered this country then. I remember when Honda's were a joke at the Chevy dealer.

But those companies provided a car that was reliable, had a very good ride, and was very competitive in price, something that the big three could not do.

So they lost market share.

How are we doing when it comes to getting, keeping or losing market share?

d

I remember when Honda's were a song by the Beach Boys.
No one is insulated from failure. This is my most beloved axiom.
That includes me, you, UPS and Tiger Woods.

 

[BLACKBOX]

When FDX started to expand in 1999 we should have had contingency plans to deal with it. The moment the word got around that FDX was expanding into Ground and Freight, it seemed like UPS had blinders on.

We were late getting into freight and let FDX establish a nationwide fleet before we decided to offer this service.

Sometimes I feel that this company does not take our competition seriously. I'm hoping they have more concrete plans to deal with customers (many long time loyal UPS accounts) who switched over to FDX.

We have way too many routes cut. Way too many drivers working inside. Morale is down and people are paranoid about "Smelly-matics".

I'd like to hear a "State-of-the-Center" and have upper management address this very issue.

 

[Blueskin75]

A share of the success or failure rests on the Drivers shoulders. It takes 2, sometimes 3 FedEx trucks to do what I do with one package car. I see that they are half empty most to the time, while mine is loaded front to back. I've never seen them pulled over taking a break/lunch. I took at least one account from FedEx simply because the Driver was too lazy to walk up steps to the office, BOOM, took that. Customers complain all day about FedEx. In my world, I am the face of UPS, (that's sorta scary). I make the decision every day to excel or just assume there will always be UPS, and slack off. Our customers have choices, do they want the Brown guy who makes perfect service everyday, or the purple and green guys with a gut and mustard stains on his shirt!! ?? I mean, it takes us ALL doing our jobs, but the driver's are what the people see, not the loader waist deep in boxes sweating his/her arse off, but they are just as important. If we get back to the "perfect service" model, the future looks good. Not the "micro-management" crap that seems to be the flavor as of now...

 

[slantnosechevy]

As drivers we can only work as directed in this micromanaged format that the company is exersizing. Going out side the box to help give the customer better service is being eliminated a little at a time for drivers and operation mngmnt. by the use of discipline because of I.E.'s having to show a certain profit and keep the shareholders happy while dealing with high fuel charges, maintenance, and with high wages on both sides of the fence. Let's don't forget what it costs to insure us.
The hard line on discipline did start at the conclusion of the strke in '97, but it is also a result of bad timing for hourly because of new technology available. While I'll never believe UPS and several other successful companies including our own Govt., didn't know tough economic times were on the horizon, I think UPS made some mistakes coughing up more in wages than they should've in '02 and '08. The Union could've gone back to the membership with $.50 an hour every year over the span of both contracts. Hoffa wanted re-elected and UPS, under Eskew and later Scott, were afraid of a strike. A strike that would've never happened. The hourly would've never voted to strike with health, welfare, and and pension contributions staying the same. Union negotiators knew of the technology on the way to simplify the job and also knew of the competative threat of FedEx. The latter they drug their heels on and are depending on our Govt. to do their job policing FedEx.
The hard line on discipline will continue until they've eliminated the high seniority people in the company either through discipline and intimidation and they leave because of it or they're lucky enough to stay out of trouble and stomach it just long enough to make it to their minimum retirement qualifications. If they get 1 out of 5 terminations to stick they're happy. Lawsuits don't bother them for wrongful termination because they usually settle out of court or maintain continuances until you do settle and then they pay less in most cases. They want drivers under this current pay and benefit package to stay a maximum of 10 years and leave. Burn you out and go. Every year after your 10th you become more of a liability medically.
UPS will continue to find cheaper ways to deliver you can count on that. I can see a resi. rate and a commercial rate because the technology is there to figure it all out on computer. They've wanted it for years, but it would've been a headache to keep track of in the past. It will become easier with the older guys out of the way and the Union knowing UPS is becoming the only game in town will give them what they want.

 

[pdalepartsman]

UPS has and always will change just as the world is changing.
as long as the stock that the general public buys is Class B with only half a vote and the amount of stock available for the public to buy is limited UPS will be around for a long time.
We just have to keep rolling with the punches

 

[dannyboy]

The moment the word got around that FDX was expanding into Ground and Freight, it seemed like UPS had blinders on.

We were late getting into freight and let FDX establish a nationwide fleet before we decided to offer this service

I remember when they went to ground, our management staff just laughed. Said it would never work for them. Problem is that they had a whole crew of ex UPS sups and managers that had an axe to grind with UPS that signed on to give it a leg up. Both as it started as RPS, and as it morphed into Fedex ground.

As for freight, UPS has always (when it comes to hard businesses) to wait and see how FedEx fares. IF well, it seems we then jump in. IT just might be timing, but that seems to be the way it is.

As a small business man, I take every one of my competitors seriously. Even the ones that will crash and burn in the first season. Each one has the ability to erode my customer base. The last thing I need to do is to give my customers a reason to go there.

Remember the old saying. Its much cheaper to keeper.

e

 

[Just Numbers]

UPS has and always will change just as the world is changing.
as long as the stock that the general public buys is Class B with only half a vote and the amount of stock available for the public to buy is limited UPS will be around for a long time.
We just have to keep rolling with the punches

I really would like to know what garbage can people get information from. Each share of class A stock carries 10 votes...Class B is 1 vote. The reason was that UPS did not want a person or investment entity getting control of UPS. There is roughly 995 million shares out there. Go on Scottrade and buy how many thousands of shares you want...will only cost you $7!

 

[TechGrrl]

You're kidding yourself if you honestly think our president bought his own car and it's not a company car.

You're also kidding yourself thinking that we don't pay for at least executive flights for them instead of them flying around on our big brown planes regardless of what info you may have.

Actually, you are wrong. To my knowledge, we don't generally pay for 'executive flights'. There have been many times I have flown into or out of Atlanta, and Mike Eskew, or other members of the management committee were right there in coach with me. I doubt this has changed in the last two years.
​

As for auditor, I had no idea and am wrong there.

Even 15% of significant. Cut it. Look after your own first otherwise they're the ones who will be needing united way. We spent 50k recently on how to survive a disaster. That's one junior driver or preloader getting his/her job back. What the stuff says on the website is your common sense, 'have bottled water, safe place to go, flashlight with batteries'. Anything any idiot knows...Well, except for our execs if this is what they thought was a good idea to spend money on, I guess they don't know.

Actually, I think you are wrong, here, too, and the reason I think that is because I am on the board of trustees of the local Red Cross chapter, and one of our biggest concerns is communicating the need to have a preparedness plan and 'getaway kit' in case of disaster. It may seem like common sense, but it simply doesn't generally rise to someone's awareness without prodding. Go volunteer at your local Red Cross chapter and see.

Do you have a plan for your family in case of a disaster? Have you rehearsed it? Does every member of your family know who to contact in some other city to update status in case you are separated? (Don't count on cell service locally in case of a disaster!) Do you have a 'getaway kit' with copies of critical papers, prescriptions, and other things you may need if living in a shelter for a week or two?
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[satellitedriver]

There are only 2 real players in the package industry and UPS and FDX will both survive. The Post Office is going bye bye in the next 10 years or so.

Really?
The Post office is going Bye, Bye?
Hitler will ice skate in hell before that happens.
USPS is mandated in the U.S. Constitution. Inefficient as it is, it will be around in some form, shape or fashion, until a amendment to the Constitution is ratified. Fat chance on that happening.
FDX and UPS will probably survive, but, their survivability is based on profitability, unlike USPS that has a "free" pass, via our tax dollars, to continue to exist.
This triad of deliver companies is just in the first phase of morphing.
Ups made a wise move in using the Basic delivery concept with USPS. In a backdoor manner, UPS is slowly making itself indispensable to USPS, which must exist by constitutional mandate, and therefore, UPS will be covertly covered under the umbrella of USPS's constitutional protection, by keeping USPS functional.
At first, I thought it was a bad move, by UPS ,to deliver to the post office.
Upon reflection, I can now see the long game plan.
I have my problems with the immediate situation at UPS, but just like UPS, I will survive and thrive.