How Long will UPS last, as the Co We Know?

[JonFrum]

Really?
The Post office is going Bye, Bye?
Hitler will ice skate in hell before that happens.
USPS is mandated in the U.S. Constitution. Inefficient as it is, it will be around in some form, shape or fashion, until a amendment to the Constitution is ratified. Fat chance on that happening.
FDX and UPS will probably survive, but, their survivability is based on profitability, unlike USPS that has a "free" pass, via our tax dollars, to continue to exist.
This triad of deliver companies is just in the first phase of morphing.
Ups made a wise move in using the Basic delivery concept with USPS. In a backdoor manner, UPS is slowly making itself indispensable to USPS, which must exist by constitutional mandate, and therefore, UPS will be covertly covered under the umbrella of USPS's constitutional protection, by keeping USPS functional.
At first, I thought it was a bad move, by UPS ,to deliver to the post office.
Upon reflection, I can now see the long game plan.
I have my problems with the immediate situation at UPS, but just like UPS, I will survive and thrive.

Where does it say in the Constitution that USPS must exist?

What makes you believe the Post Office receives "our tax dollars"? Direct taxpayer subsidy was eliminated in 1983.

 

[Just Numbers]

Where does it say in the Constitution that USPS must exist?

What makes you believe the Post Office receives "our tax dollars"? Direct taxpayer subsidy was eliminated in 1983.

So are you saying the post office has been running a profit for the past 26 yrs? If not where do they get the money to make payroll ect. What private entity is backing them since public funds are not being used?

 

[satellitedriver]

Where does it say in the Constitution that USPS must exist?
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution.

What makes you believe the Post Office receives "our tax dollars"?
All employees of USPS are government employees and receive their retirement and health benefits through the GS system.
IE;
our tax dollars.
Not to mention that, when they (usps)does not profit, Congress must foot the bill to keep them afloat.
Jeez, where does Congress get the money?

Taxes, maybe?

 

[JonFrum]

So are you saying the post office has been running a profit for the past 26 yrs?

No. They are required to try to break even, but in recent years the Post Office has been running a deficit.

If not where do they get the money to make payroll ect.

From printing small retangular pieces of paper with pictures of flags and birds and people and such on one side, and glue on the other that shippers pay money to lick. The Post Office charges for its services. If it doesn't make enough money to at least break even, it raises its rates.

What private entity is backing them since public funds are not being used?

No private entity backs them.

 

[JonFrum]

Satellitedriver,

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution says:
"The Congress shall have the power to . . . establish Post Offices and Post Roads . . ."

That doesn't mandate a Post Office, or make it permanent, or require a constitutional amendment to change it.

All it means is the Congress can create a Postal System by passing a law, if it wants to. (Not that Congress really thought it needed the Constitution's permission. Congress isn't exactly shy about passing laws and creating things, even those not mentioned in the Constitution.)
- - - - -
Read up on the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 to see that the taxpayer operating subsidy was fazed out in 1982/1983.

 

[over9five]

Satellitedriver,

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution says:
"The Congress shall have the power to . . . establish Post Offices and Post Roads . . ."

That doesn't mandate a Post Office, or make it permanent, or require a constitutional amendment to change it.

Yes, but we could grieve it if they try to get rid of the PO.

"Past Practice", ya kno!!!!

 

[1989]

So are you saying the post office has been running a profit for the past 26 yrs? If not where do they get the money to make payroll ect. What private entity is backing them since public funds are not being used?

No, the Fed has been running a profit for the past 26 years.

 

[satellitedriver]

Satellitedriver,

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution says:
"The Congress shall have the power to . . . establish Post Offices and Post Roads . . ."

That doesn't mandate a Post Office, or make it permanent, or require a constitutional amendment to change it.

All it means is the Congress can create a Postal System by passing a law, if it wants to. (Not that Congress really thought it needed the Constitution's permission. Congress isn't exactly shy about passing laws and creating things, even those not mentioned in the Constitution.)
- - - - -
Read up on the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 to see that the taxpayer operating subsidy was fazed out in 1982/1983.

I read up, Jon.

I am not a wiz kid with cut and paste, but I will try to show that USPS started out under Constitutional protection and after the 1970's reorganization act still is a a Federally controlled entity.

The Post Office Department
Following the adoption of the Constitution in May 1789, the Act of September 22, 1789 (1 Stat. 70), temporarily established a post office and created the Office of the Postmaster General. On September 26, 1789.

The Postal Service was temporarily continued by the Act of August 4, 1790 (1 Stat. 178), and the Act of March 3, 1791 (1 Stat. 218). The Act of February 20, 1792, made detailed provisions for the Post Office. Subsequent legislation enlarged the duties of the Post Office, strengthened and unified its organization, and provided rules and regulations for its development.

OK,
I know that was then, lets fast forward to the 70's.

The Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 abolished the United States Post Office Department, a part of the cabinet, and created the United States Postal Service, a corporation-like independent agency with an official monopoly(official monopoly?) on the delivery of mail in the United States. Pub.L. 91-375 was signed by President Richard Nixon on August 12, 1970

I really love this double speak;

The USPS is often mistaken for a government-owned corporation (e.g., Amtrak), but as noted above is legally(legally is the key word) defined as an "independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States," (39 U.S.C. § 201) as it is wholly owned by the government(wholly owned? By the government?) and controlled by the Presidential( as in, the big guy)appointees and the Postmaster General. As a quasi-governmental agency,( I really like the word quasi, it just rolls off the tongue) it has many(many!!!) special privileges, including sovereign immunity, eminent domain powers, powers to negotiate postal treaties with foreign nations, and an exclusive( exclusive) legal( there's that" legal" word again) right to deliver first-class and third-class mail.

Prime example of how the Post office is not really controlled by our Federal Government.

Independent agencies of the United States federal government are those agencies that exist outside of the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary). However, most independent agencies are part of the executive branch, with only a few being part of the legislative or judicial branches.
Established through separate statutes passed by the Congress, each respective statutory grant of authority defines the goals the agency must work towards, as well as what substantive areas, if any, over which it may have the power of rule making. These agency rules (or regulations), while in force, have the power of federal law.

Power of federal law?
If this is not a shell game, I have never seen one.

Jon,

I will defer to you that USPS is no longer protected under the Constitution, but it is still under Federal control (meaning our tax dollars) and that will never go away.

They can change the name,
but,
it is still the same game.

 

[hondo]

FWIW, a local postmaster commented on the radio here that the main source of their fiscal woes was their recently enacted equivalent to the Pension Protection Act. Up until then they had been operating out of pocket, so to speak. Haven't had time to look into that myself.