How many on area observations in one week is harrasment?

Raw

Raw Member
Very few rules are hard and fast with UPS, aside the obvious safety method ones such as seatbelt ,bulkhead doors, no pkgs inside vehicle, etc etc.

One on-car sup wants you to walk through the grass, walk through grandmas garden as it's a faster route. the next one wants you to walk the driveway.

One on-car wants you to fling the VSD or GAP bags to the front door and save 5 steps, the other reprimands you for it.

One on-car sup tells you to stop AT the white line at intersection, not ahead or behind. The next one marks you for NOT stopping 1/2 car length before it.

One on-car tells you to scan inside the truck at docks and let the recieving clerk(s) help you. The other yells at you, DO NOT SCAN INSIDE THE TRUCK, LAY THEM OUT AND THEN SCAN, PUSH, LAY THEM OUT/SCAN/PUSH.

Just a few actual real-world examples of the harrassment I have had the past few years while driving. I could go on and on. Your post definitly got me going!
True! Last ride I had an onroad tell me I don`t have to come to a complete stop if I`m turning right on a red light! I told him he is full of S&?t then proceeded to tell evety driver, supe, manager,& distict manager I saw for months afterward what he said! That`s how I roll! LOL!!! :happy-very:
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
True! Last ride I had an onroad tell me I don`t have to come to a complete stop if I`m turning right on a red light! I told him he is full of S&?t then proceeded to tell evety driver, supe, manager,& distict manager I saw for months afterward what he said! That`s how I roll! LOL!!! :happy-very:

Right on. Don't stop at a red light, that's a good idea...not. Goes back to the on-car who told me "You don't make up time driving, you make up time with proper methods". The same guy is the one telling me to run through gardens and lawns, throw packages, etc... haha
 

Aaron

Active Member
What I do is talk to the local Law Enforcement agency ahead of time about potential management following me, and get a phone number that rings directly to them. Haven't had to do it yet, but the officers defiantly like harassing management for me.

You can either tell them a supervisor is following you, or play dumb and say you're being followed while delivering. Eitherway, the supervisor could be stealing packages, for all you know. :happy2:
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
What I do is talk to the local Law Enforcement agency ahead of time about potential management following me, and get a phone number that rings directly to them. Haven't had to do it yet, but the officers defiantly like harassing management for me.

You can either tell them a supervisor is following you, or play dumb and say you're being followed while delivering. Eitherway, the supervisor could be stealing packages, for all you know. :happy2:

Let me file that under the heading "Advice Not to Follow" and move on.
 

UPSBluRdg03

Well-Known Member
I definately agree with you Sleeve. I was trained to pull up at house stops in a neighborhood so that you step out of the truck and onto the driveway. Giving you a clear walk path to the door. Now they say dont block the driveways. Which if you pull past the driveway and as close to the side of the road to give traffic room to get by this puts you stepping out into the grass. Then you basically have to atleast cut across the yard to get back to the driveway. I do avoid walking in the grass when its wet but when its dry its fair game.
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
Get with your dispatch sup and have him flag that stop as closed on Tuesdays. The packages will not be in EDD or on your car. If that is not feasible, sheet them CLO HOL. That is what we are told to do here if the business is closed all day and the pkgs were not pulled from EDD during the preload. This way the business is not charged for a service day and you do not show up on a report. It seems that hair salons and dentists are the usual suspects.

CLO HOL between noon and 1 will not put you any report but you need to work as directed by your center manager.
Down here in the south, which by the way has just changed to the North Florida district, we aren't allowed to she anything other than pkgs delivered between 12-1. Closed holiday would fall under that, as well as No Money, Moved, Vacant, etc...

True! Last ride I had an onroad tell me I don`t have to come to a complete stop if I`m turning right on a red light! I told him he is full of S&?t then proceeded to tell evety driver, supe, manager,& distict manager I saw for months afterward what he said! That`s how I roll! LOL!!! :happy-very:
I guess the on-road didn't care that is is YOUR license at risk, and btw, that's not how you roll, it's how you STOP!:wink2:
 

Omega man

Well-Known Member
CLO HOL between noon and 1 will not put you any report but you need to work as directed by your center manager.

Where I work, if a driver sheeted a package Closed Holiday for a business closed between 12 to 1 when there was no holiday, the driver would be fired for dishonesty.
Why not return to the business after they reopen? Screw UPS' numbers. It's up to UPS management to dispatch us efficiently. We should not be required to lie for them when they don't.
 

Omega man

Well-Known Member
UPS can observe you as much as they want. You can't scream harrassment when management is just doing their job...

The problem for management is that we have protections from over supervision in our contract. They can't keep harassing us on road. At some point it becomes a violation of Article 37.
In my center the management trump up petty violations against drivers when they can't find anything. Giving drivers warning letters because the observer didn't believe the backup monitor volume was loud enough, or because the driver supposedly only used 3 instead of 4 fingers on the grab handle, or that the driver's signature on the DVIR was not legible because he didn't dot the " i " on his name only make management look pathetic. If you think that this is managements job instead of addressing UPS' real problems then there is no wonder why this company is a disaster.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Where I work, if a driver sheeted a package Closed Holiday for a business closed between 12 to 1 when there was no holiday, the driver would be fired for dishonesty.
Why not return to the business after they reopen? Screw UPS' numbers. It's up to UPS management to dispatch us efficiently. We should not be required to lie for them when they don't.

If you had bothered to read the thread you would have read that I use CLO HOL for a business that is CLOSED FOR THE WHOLE DAY. I have identified these stops for the dispatch sup and he is usually really good about tagging them so that they will not get on the car nor be in EDD but, if they do, we are instructed to sheet them as CLO H.

Using CLO HOL as you described is dishonesty and should result in termination.
 

Dragon

Package Center Manager
Yep. My all-time favorite (and this may only be in my district only, so bear with me) is we cannot sheet anything as 'closed' between the hours of 12p and 1p or after 5p because it will show up on a report as a service failure. So when I get to that dentist office over on Main St. that's closed all-day every Tuesday at 12:45pm, what do I do? Sit there for 16 minutes until I can complete the stop? Wouldn't want that being misconstrued as stealing company time. Do I continue on trace and at 1:01 pm, break off and come back, potentially wasting time and miles? I can't put it into pre-record and stop complete it down the road, the high-caliber individuals in security may notice and begin to question my integrity.

My gripe is that the company is forcing me to falsify their records. It's one thing if an office is closed all day as opposed to being out to lunch, but seriously, what do I do here? I'm at a stop, they have packages, they are not here. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

UpstateNYUPSer gave you the right advice. Now since you don't want the other driver to get more work, you should keep moving and making deliveries then come back. Sitting there and waiting 16 minutes is a complete waste of your time and a waste of money for UPS.
 

tieguy

Banned
The problem for management is that we have protections from over supervision in our contract. They can't keep harassing us on road. At some point it becomes a violation of Article 37.
In my center the management trump up petty violations against drivers when they can't find anything. Giving drivers warning letters because the observer didn't believe the backup monitor volume was loud enough, or because the driver supposedly only used 3 instead of 4 fingers on the grab handle, or that the driver's signature on the DVIR was not legible because he didn't dot the " i " on his name only make management look pathetic. If you think that this is managements job instead of addressing UPS' real problems then there is no wonder why this company is a disaster.

how does that protection against being observed too much work for the inside employee. Are we supposed to look the other way once we have a couple of observations done?

Or perhaps you meant there was special language against being observed too much for the drivers only?
 
It's pretty comical that every person in this thread representing UPS management acts like "area observations" don't turn around into discipline. It's also laughable that you act as if you don't specifically target certain people and let others go off the hook with safety violations. You aren't going out with the intentions of insuring people are working safely -- the sole intention is to invent an infraction and create a case to fire the person ASAP. I work in a bonus center and up until this year it was unheard of for someone who makes bonus to be disciplined for ANYTHING. Fast-forward to the new flavor of 2010 at UPS -- go out and harass drivers who are more than 1hr under and 1hr over. Not only have I seen this in person, I was told by a manager that this is what they are being instructed to do now. Anybody who falls outside of the extremes of -1hr/+1hr is targeted by management and harassed on a daily basis up to and including termination. Managers are giving out outrageous warning letters for bizarre nitpicking violations to justify their own existence. A few weeks ago a driver here got a warning letter for not pulling in his mirror while parked. Meanwhile the allowances are the worst I have ever seen, I don't even understand how people are even making bonus anymore. I'm maxed out and have been for years as far as stops go, I have no extra time in my day outside of my lunch and break. If you are a target of this production harassment, start documenting everything (dates, times, names, comments made by management, etc) and put it into a file at home. The way this company handles itself in regards to targeting and harassing people is a ticking lawsuit bomb.
 
Actually you don't understand the point of greivances. Greivances are to make you feel better.. They are nothing more than a tool to help the healing process, when you feel you have been wronged. 99.9% of greivances don't matter to anyone. You can rattle off articles and they are nothing more than a slap on the wrist for a low level management person. You are living proof, that the union still can brainwash people. It's also very telling because the union is washed up and UPS controls it now. I don't work hard your right, I make you work hard for me... I golf on Friday, I like four day work weeks.... File away and I hope it makes you feel better.. After all that's why we let you file greivances, because we want you to feel good.

You openly admit that you don't work hard for your paychecks, yet you run around these boards calling drivers lazy and worthless? You should probably think about seeing a psychologist instead of making another tee-time.
 
you're right I don't understand people who proudly brag about being bad employees.Your bragging about being a crappy employee and your nickname here indicate you think uncle buster hired you because they needed an ****** to fill their quota. It really does not matter whether you think I understand the grievance process or not. you don't understand it. when you arbitrarily file as many as you suggest you discredit the grievance process to the point where no one takes your grievances seriously.

The reall danger for you is the day they do take your grievances seriously. The day they decide to hold you as accountable for your actions as you try to hold them accountable for theirs. your grievances are a nuisance to them and cost them money. Their grievance against you can cost you money and your job.

I'm told almost daily how bad of an employee I am and how what I do everyday isn't good enough in the eyes of the company. I "brag" about being a bad employee because I think it's completely ridiculous and absurd. I know what I've done for this company year in & year out. I'm too long in the tooth for your management style, you clearly drank the brown koolaid. You come off as someone who fears nobody except the voices on the other end of your morning conference call. If you think grievances are a nuisance and don't hold any water when it comes to conflict resolution I suggest you call up my center manager from about 5 years back who got canned for falsifying my timecard.
 

tieguy

Banned
It's pretty comical that every person in this thread representing UPS management acts like "area observations" don't turn around into discipline.

in my department we did hundreds of observations the past month with a very small percentage turning into discipline.

I was told by a manager that this is what they are being instructed to do now..

I was told by a steward that hoffa was cooking up a terrorist plot but I don't believe that one either.
 

tieguy

Banned
I'm told almost daily how bad of an employee I am and how what I do everyday isn't good enough in the eyes of the company. I "brag" about being a bad employee because I think it's completely ridiculous and absurd. I know what I've done for this company year in & year out. I'm too long in the tooth for your management style, you clearly drank the brown koolaid. You come off as someone who fears nobody except the voices on the other end of your morning conference call. If you think grievances are a nuisance and don't hold any water when it comes to conflict resolution I suggest you call up my center manager from about 5 years back who got canned for falsifying my timecard.

so you think the feeback you get on your performance is wrong and in response you come here and brag about being a bad employee?
 
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