I Don't Get It

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by vantexan, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Several years ago someone mentioned to Fred Smith the difficulties of having separate opco's for customers and he replied something to the effect that FedEx was working on that, just wait and see. They've obviously been working on this for many years and someone recently posted that their sr.mgr. recently said that soon we won't recognize FedEx.

    That being said, why all the hope here to somehow get a union in? It takes at least 50% of employees to sign union cards before a vote can be forced, and without a network in place to educate and sign people up it's extremely unlikely. I'm at a station that is knee jerk against unions, as were most people in the last few stations I worked at. The writing is on the wall, FedEx is merging Ground and Express as much as possible, and it's obvious they feel that if they can get people to work for less at Ground then it's not necessary to pay people more at Express. The topped out employees for the most part are the most loyal employees and quite a few I know get irritated very quickly with mid-range employees who complain. Before a union could possibly get in DRA will be in effect and FedEx can just get rid of union advocates. And there's very little sympathy from the public or the gov't as things are tough everywhere for too many.

    So what do you hope to possibly accomplish? If it's about venting, go for it. I think the best thing that can be done is spend the rest of your life telling people, in appropriate conversations so they don't think you've got an axe to grind, that FedEx should be avoided like the plague. It's the one thing that tens of thousands of disgruntled employees and former employees can do to throw a monkey wrench into their plans. May not get instant results, but it can't be stopped like buying Congressmen stopped us cold. People were eager to work for FedEx in the '80's because the perception was it would provide a good future. Let people know what kind of people run this company and what kind of future they can expect from such people. If anything it may force them to pay more.
     
  2. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    It's worth a try to get a union. I realize you and R1a don't get along, but there is nothing to lose and everything to gain right now by trying to get representation. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
     
  3. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Good luck, but keep in mind when the FAA bill was finally passed it was not only with the Express Employees Relief Act removed, but with the new requirement that 50% of employees sign cards to have a vote, up from the previous 35%. We got sold out big time and now it'll literally be impossible to get a union in. Which is why I believe the I.B.T. isn't doing anything, it would just be throwing money away. Unless you want to risk prison by sabotaging stations the only real weapon we have is talking to the public.
     
  4. Mr. 7

    Mr. 7 The monkey on the left.

    So,
    If you actively try to shut FedEx down over the next couple of years, how are you gonna feel about not getting any pension at all since the company is out of business?
     
  5. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    They are taking the union threat very seriously. Donuts and pizza are being prepared as the first line of defense. If we hit hot dogs, their knees are buckling. Chin up!!
     
  6. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    Using that logic why should anybody stand up for anything? What if Rosa Parks just quietly sat in the back of that bus? What if Gandhi had never embarked on the Salt March to Dandi? What if there never was an "unknown rebel " at Tiananmen Square? What if Martin Luther King junior never made his " I have a dream" speech? The fact is the odds will always be stacked against what is right. But then again nothing in life is easy.
     
  7. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    It's really not in the same league as the above. The company wants to run things one way, some employees want to force them to do it another way. Not going to get a national holiday out of it.
     
  8. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    It won't shut them down. Might hurt them enough to improve things, and it'll take more than two years. Pensions are covered to a point by the gov't, and if FedEx ever did go out of business they'd have to provide some percentage of their assets towards covering those pensions. At any rate it won't hurt them like a union would, but it appears to be the only avenue we truly have to get at them.
     
  9. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    And that is the mentality FedEx likes you to have. You want easy and a sure thing, you will never find it. If you want to accept things as they are and that you are powerless to change things, then that is up to you. My personal life experiences have taught me the opposite. I used those examples because those people chose to stand up for what is right and not just accept things for what they are. They have shown one person, one act , can make a difference.
     
  10. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    You sound like a cult member. I've worked hard since I was 12, even unloaded cans for almost 4 years at last station, even after getting a stent put in an artery. And I'm not a kid. So can the want it easy crap. Take a good look around you, pay has been stagnant for everyone, not just FedEx employees. And spare me the not-for-execs-it-hasn't argument. The money they make on stock doesn't come out of company revenue other than dividends. If you took their salaries and dividends and spread it amongst all the employees it wouldn't go far. There simply isn't enough leftover after all expenses to pay us like UPS employees, with their great benefits also, which is the goal of union advocates here. The numbers don't add up, but what the hell, let's ignore the numbers. And guess what, we mid-range employees subsidize top-out pay with our less pay, and B pay employees subsidize the highest payscales. Somewhere someone is getting screwed, and it won't end with a union, unless it's all of us because the company has to shut down when they can't meet ever growing demands from employees for the next contract. The company could do better for mid-range employees, top us out faster, but that would most likely mean top out is truly topped out, no more raises for them. It's a dog eat dog system based on lies, and there is no panacea out there unless FedEx operates exactly like UPS and then customers could choose between the two based on how good the service is. And that would mean a union at FedEx and Fred Smith will never allow it.
     
  11. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    Sounds like someone got you bro. That's ok. You want to be a blind sheep and believe that crap, that's up to you. Save the sob story as well. I know plenty of people who have been through hell and back The numbers are there just not for its front line employees. The major difference between ups and FedEx is where the money goes. Follow the money bro. Fred a multi billionaire, top execs multi millionaires, upper management six figures plus. I can give a ratts ass about stock options . Who the hell makes that stock possible? The frontline employees. How about giving us some of that precious stock. Millions on needless sponsorships. Flying pandas all around the world. Every mother in this company knows where the money goes bro. So drink that kool aid up all you want.
     
  12. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    It's not Kool-ade, it's reality. On the one hand you've got management lying to people to get them to stay at the job, the bigger sucker theory. Once someone has been around long enough to figure out they're getting screwed and quit, a bigger sucker comes along to take their place. On the other hand you've got employees who have unrealistic expectations, comparing apples and oranges. As long as UPS trucks most of it's freight instead of flying it, they'll be able to have lower costs per pkg and be able to pay their employees better. That's exactly why FedEx has been developing Ground. Biggest difference between management of both companies is UPS management has to settle for less profit because of the union. FedEx has gone to great lengths to keep a union out because they want that profit for themselves in the form of dividends and higher stock prices. Don't kid yourself, if UPS management could get rid of the union tomorrow and slash pay and benefits they would. Stop treating everyone who disagrees with you about anything like the enemy and realize you need to get the best deal for yourself, whether at FedEx or elsewhere, because most companies see you as a commodity to be used for their benefit. Your usefulness dictates your pay, not right or wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013
  13. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    You do get it but why the conflicting statements? I think you are confused. UPS has found a way to make it work that's why they are the better company. Company does good and workers do good. Win win situation. Of course they would keep more profit for themselves if they could. But they cant. The workers who create the profit are on a more level playing field. FedEx is developing ground because they have found their cash cow. If they had to pay its drivers as employees and benefits I'm guessing there would be no ground.
    That's the difference. One company does it the right way while the other relys on a scam and takes from its employees to make it work for them. At this point its not about making 32 an hour it's just about being rewarded for hard work and dedication. Sorry I don't believe the we can't afford to pay you more. We have to buy planes, trucks, and " stay viable in today's economy". Bs
    If you believe that crap then I have a bridge to nowhere for you.
     
  14. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    You keep missing that little detail that makes it possible for UPS to do what they do: they truck most of their freight. As long as FedEx is an airfreight business first and foremost they can't pay what UPS pays. As they become a ground freight business first and foremost they aren't going to do what UPS does, pay better, because they don't have to. And what pay increases they do dole out will most likely go mostly to Ground because it is their cash cow. You guys are fighting for a union that has been effectively shut out. See the Teamsters passing out cards to FedEx employees anywhere? Well? I never said they couldn't pay more but the union advocates aren't going to settle for a buck an hour increase or faster top-out times. They want what UPS has, good luck getting it. While we're at it, if FedEx becomes more profitable due to Ground, and Express somehow manages to get unionized and hits the jackpot with UPS pay and benefits, guess what? They'll do it on the backs of those lowly Ground drivers they love to sneer at. Ironic, isn't it? And just another example of how one group in this company is pitted against another and someone is always getting screwed.
     
  15. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    You are wrong bro. They can pay more. Ground and express are part of the same corporation. The money goes into the same pot. How does ups have lower costs when they pay their drivers twice what they pay express? Management is always saying" labor is their biggest expense". Ups may have a lower costs on their ground freight but it also produces lower revenue per pkg vs per express pkg.
     
  16. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    Nope. Express produces much more revenue than Ground per pkg but after all their expenses their profit is lower than Ground's per pkg. UPS has the advantage of having about $8 billion more in revenue, if I remember right, as they handle more freight but their costs per pkg outside of payroll are much lower than Express. This allows them to pay much more and still turn a profit. As FedEx puts more emphasis on Ground that opco will supplant Express as the one with the most revenue, making FedEx much more profitable. Yes, all the profit goes into the holding company, Federal Express Corporation, and the corporate officers choose how to best spend it. As Ground will be producing more of the profit you should expect that more of it will be plowed back into Ground instead of Express. The only way you'll see Express getting more of that increased profit is if you can get a union in. And my point stands, if Express gets paid much more due to a union that extra pay will come mostly from Ground. And if those Ground drivers see Express couriers living much better than they are off the revenue Ground produces, you can bet there will be huge turnover at Ground, threatening all that great pay at Express.
     
  17. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    They already get peanuts how much lower can they pay at ground? You just said it in your post. " their costs per pkg outside of payroll is lower than express". When you account for payroll in both corporations FedEx comes out ahead on less revenue. Someone posted the numbers here. There is room for increases in wages and benefits. You have just taken their bait. Hook, line and sinker.
     
  18. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    No I haven't. What you aren't seeing is that they aren't producing enough profit yet to pay Express much better. They will in time but if they paid Express much better while leaving the Ground guys at much lower pay then you'd have people at Ground quitting in anger. Someone posted a thread asking what if FedEx was to top everyone out could they? I pointed out it would most likely take most of their current profit to do that which no one responded to because no one wants to hear that it won't happen, just figure out how to make it happen. The only way FedEx can pay UPS comparable pay and benefits is if FedEx becomes as large as UPS and ships most freight by truck. Until that happens the best Express can hope for is a little higher top-out and an accelerated path to top pay, maybe 10-15 years. It won't happen because management in this company wants those profits for themselves and shareholders and are determined to wring it out of the employees. A union won't get you UPS pay, and it's highly unlikely you'll get a union anyways. Prepare yourself for this reality instead of putting all your hopes in the Teamsters. We had a much better chance in 2010, and got beaten by Fred's millions.
     
  19. MAKAVELI

    MAKAVELI Well-Known Member

    You are the one missing the point. Nobody is asking for $32 an hour right now.Shi t, we can't even get a 3% cola raise right now when the stock is over $100. If you think they are going to pay us any more than we get now without representation you are only fooling yourself. They don't plan on topping out anyone in the future. It's been said by management. I think someone got to you and now you are scared from the lies and propaganda that was told to you. You gotta stop being a blind sheep and realize there is strength in numbers and we can get a better deal for ourselves. Ever since I started with this company, it's been doom and gloom. The company is hurting, we need you to work harder for less. Bs. This company even when the economy was in the tank was turning a profit. I for one never was a sheep and never will be.
     
  20. vantexan

    vantexan Well-Known Member

    We're all proud of you. Tell me what the stock price has to do with your pay? The price reflects a belief that FedEx will provide a bigger dividend per share in the future because Fred Smith has said they are going to almost double profits by 2016. Part of the way they are going to do that is reducing overhead. And Ground's growth will provide much of it. I've already pointed out what a better deal would mean if they were willing right now. A little higher top-out and a faster, but not much faster, path to top pay. And your saying no one is asking for $32hr right now is telling. It's why FedEx has done everything they can to keep a union out. Eventually you'll want that higher pay. And it's not fear, it's looking at things realistically instead of pitching a fit and saying I want what I want. It makes no difference to me as I'm approaching the end of the line. Even if you could pull off a union and force much better pay and benefits, by the time you do I wouldn't care anymore. I'm not staying to work for a bunch of lying, cheating lunatics any longer than I have to and soon I won't have to. Good luck with all that, you'll need it.