I just got discharged and have a few questions

[Dertold33]

I'm not sure if this forum is specifically for members of local 804, but I don't know where else to get advice. I'm a primary sorter in the teamsters 705 in Illinois, and if anybody can show me to the contract or where I can find it that would be really helpful.

Two months ago this week I went to a gas station down the street on break (I've done this before and gotten back in time) but I locked my keys in my car. My phone was in the car so I wasn't able to call my supervisor, and I used a payphone to call a friend who drove me home to get my spare set of keys. I was worried that if I left my car at a gas station, at a pump abandoned, that it would get towed. Obviously the smartest thing to keep my job would have been to walk back and notify them, but my supervisor would have kept me to the end of the shift and I really didnt want to pay a ridiculous towing fee (pretty dumb in hindsight, but I didn't expect to lose my job for a first time offense). After an hour or so of waiting and going all the way home and back the shift was over, so i decided to just go in the next day and hope for the best.

So I got discharged the next day. My part time supervisor clocked me in as soon as the shift started, which, as I've read on other posts on this site, saved my job. The first problem i had was that the union steward present who said he filed a grievance never notified the business agent. After emailing the local site a week later and waiting a week, 3 weeks to the day i finally got a hold of the business agent who said it was the first he heard about it. Now after five weeks of calling him every week or two he continues to tell me that he'll call me when he sets something up, but i'm getting worried it'll never happen. I don't want to bother him, but I feel like there's some feet dragging.

My first question is how long do arbitration hearings take to set up, and is there any way I can set up my own arbitration hearing?

Second is if they have grounds to fire me for a first time offense, even for something considered "workplace abandonment"? From what I understand you have to be given a verbal and written warning for everything besides being drunk and stealing.

Finally, if I did end up getting it back, is there any chance of back pay? Or is that extremely hard to fight for? I've now missed 2 months, and it's peak season so i'm missing so much more.

Sorry for the wall of text, but i've just lost a lot of sleep over this, not to mention a lot of money. Thank you, if anybody can help

Edit:: I have a non related question, but I've read here and a few other places that all part timers are guaranteed 3.5 hours each day, does that apply everywhere? I work on average 16 hours a week, sometimes less when they force people home.

 

[JonFrum]

Here's some info . . .
http://teamsterslocal705.org/email-contact

Local 705 Agreement . . .
ARTICLE 54. DISCHARGE AND SUSPENSION
The Employer shall not discharge or suspend any employee without just cause. No employee shall be suspended or discharged without first being verbally warned and the warning being documented, except for the following offenses:
a) Dishonesty;
(b) Drinking of, or under the influence of alcoholic beverages (as specified in Article 35 herein above) or narcotics during the workday;
(c) Personal possession or the use of drugs, marijuana or L.S.D. during the work day;
(d) Gross negligence resulting in a serious accident as defined in Article 18.
(e) The carrying of unauthorized passengers while on the job;
(friend) Failure to report an accident;
(g) A runaway accident;
(h) Sexual harassment;
(i) Fighting on the job.

The warning notice, as herein provided, shall have no force or effect for a period of more than nine (9) months from the date of said warning notice. Warning notices or file write-ups beyond the nine (9) month period set forth above, will shall not be considered in the grievance procedure.
Disciplinary action shall be reduced to writing with a copy of the disciplinary warning, suspension or discharge notice presented, at the time of such notice, to the employee and to the Union Steward.

ARTICLE 22. PART-TIME EMPLOYEES
Sections 5. Wages
(d) All part-time employees governed by this Article shall be provided a minimum daily three and one-half (3-1/2) hour guarantee. Should any part-time employee work beyond the fifth (5th) hour, he / she shall be paid time and one-half (1-1/2) his / her regular rate for all time worked in excess of five (5) hours.

ARTICLE 44. SENIORITY
Section 1. Seniority Rights
Employee seniority, and not the equipment, shall prevail for all purposes and in all instances. Seniority shall be broken only by discharge for just cause, voluntary resignation, more than two (2) years lay-off, or if the employee fails to report to work for three (3) consecutive working days and does not properly notify the company by the beginning of his/her start time on the fourth (4th) day.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I'm not sure if this forum is specifically for members of local 804, but I don't know where else to get advice. I'm a primary sorter in the teamsters 705 in Illinois, and if anybody can show me to the contract or where I can find it that would be really helpful.

Two months ago this week I went to a gas station down the street on break (I've done this before and gotten back in time) but I locked my keys in my car. My phone was in the car so I wasn't able to call my supervisor, and I used a payphone to call a friend who drove me home to get my spare set of keys. I was worried that if I left my car at a gas station, at a pump abandoned, that it would get towed. Obviously the smartest thing to keep my job would have been to walk back and notify them, but my supervisor would have kept me to the end of the shift and I really didnt want to pay a ridiculous towing fee (pretty dumb in hindsight, but I didn't expect to lose my job for a first time offense). After an hour or so of waiting and going all the way home and back the shift was over, so i decided to just go in the next day and hope for the best.

So I got discharged the next day. My part time supervisor clocked me in as soon as the shift started, which, as I've read on other posts on this site, saved my job. The first problem i had was that the union steward present who said he filed a grievance never notified the business agent. After emailing the local site a week later and waiting a week, 3 weeks to the day i finally got a hold of the business agent who said it was the first he heard about it. Now after five weeks of calling him every week or two he continues to tell me that he'll call me when he sets something up, but i'm getting worried it'll never happen. I don't want to bother him, but I feel like there's some feet dragging.

My first question is how long do arbitration hearings take to set up, and is there any way I can set up my own arbitration hearing?

Second is if they have grounds to fire me for a first time offense, even for something considered "workplace abandonment"? From what I understand you have to be given a verbal and written warning for everything besides being drunk and stealing.

Finally, if I did end up getting it back, is there any chance of back pay? Or is that extremely hard to fight for? I've now missed 2 months, and it's peak season so i'm missing so much more.

Sorry for the wall of text, but i've just lost a lot of sleep over this, not to mention a lot of money. Thank you, if anybody can help

Edit:: I have a non related question, but I've read here and a few other places that all part timers are guaranteed 3.5 hours each day, does that apply everywhere? I work on average 16 hours a week, sometimes less when they force people home.

Never, ever leave the job while you are on the clock!!!!

As for the guarantee, all part-timers get 3 (Article 40 air) or 3.5 hours. You should not be forced home until you reach 3.5 hours if you are an article 22 part-time employee. It's all management arrogance and callousness in efforts to make their numbers if they are "forcing" people to go home without their guaranteed hours. File a grievance if you are ever "forced" to punch out, it'll never happen again.

 

[latin0man]

i actually used to work with this guy and is a friend of mine( he also told me about this site) but i laughed so much at all the supervisors who got him "fired" kuz after 2 months of they thinking he got fired he gets 2 checks 1 for the holidays and the other for his 3 optional days

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

From what you have told us IMO the termination was justified. Job abandonment.

 

[grgrcr88]

I'm not sure if this forum is specifically for members of local 804, but I don't know where else to get advice. I'm a primary sorter in the teamsters 705 in Illinois, and if anybody can show me to the contract or where I can find it that would be really helpful.

Two months ago this week I went to a gas station down the street on break (I've done this before and gotten back in time) but I locked my keys in my car. My phone was in the car so I wasn't able to call my supervisor, and I used a payphone to call a friend who drove me home to get my spare set of keys. I was worried that if I left my car at a gas station, at a pump abandoned, that it would get towed. Obviously the smartest thing to keep my job would have been to walk back and notify them, but my supervisor would have kept me to the end of the shift and I really didnt want to pay a ridiculous towing fee (pretty dumb in hindsight, but I didn't expect to lose my job for a first time offense). After an hour or so of waiting and going all the way home and back the shift was over, so i decided to just go in the next day and hope for the best.

So I got discharged the next day. My part time supervisor clocked me in as soon as the shift started, which, as I've read on other posts on this site, saved my job. The first problem i had was that the union steward present who said he filed a grievance never notified the business agent. After emailing the local site a week later and waiting a week, 3 weeks to the day i finally got a hold of the business agent who said it was the first he heard about it. Now after five weeks of calling him every week or two he continues to tell me that he'll call me when he sets something up, but i'm getting worried it'll never happen. I don't want to bother him, but I feel like there's some feet dragging.

My first question is how long do arbitration hearings take to set up, and is there any way I can set up my own arbitration hearing?

Second is if they have grounds to fire me for a first time offense, even for something considered "workplace abandonment"? From what I understand you have to be given a verbal and written warning for everything besides being drunk and stealing.

Finally, if I did end up getting it back, is there any chance of back pay? Or is that extremely hard to fight for? I've now missed 2 months, and it's peak season so i'm missing so much more.

Sorry for the wall of text, but i've just lost a lot of sleep over this, not to mention a lot of money. Thank you, if anybody can help

Edit:: I have a non related question, but I've read here and a few other places that all part timers are guaranteed 3.5 hours each day, does that apply everywhere? I work on average 16 hours a week, sometimes less when they force people home.

Was there a grievance filed in a timely manner for the termination? By timely I mean within 10 days of the date of termination. If not, you have no chance to return to work.

I have to ask, why did you not use the payphone at the gas station to call your sup when you called your friend?

 

[Dertold33]

The Employer shall not discharge or suspend any employee without just cause. No employee shall be suspended or discharged without first being verbally warned and the warning being documented, except for the following offenses:

I was given a write up on a day when myself and a few others clocked ourselves out when the shift ended and the supervisor was nowhere to be found. Could that be considered job abandonment in any way, even though i clocked out and the shift was over? Also, is every write up considered a verbal warning or do they need to specify it?

Was there a grievance filed in a timely manner for the termination? By timely I mean within 10 days of the date of termination. If not, you have no chance to return to work.

The steward filled out the grievance paper with the supervisor still there, although I have no clue if he actually filed it in time because the business manager said he hadn't heard of my case yet. I have reasons to believe the steward is friends with that supervisor and didn't file it because he thought I would just walk away, and another steward said people made complaints about him in the past. If he lied about filing it is there anything I can do?

I have to ask, why did you not use the payphone at the gas station to call your sup when you called your friend?

I don't know my supervisor's number by heart, I've only had to call him once and it's stored in my phone.

 

[soberups]

From what you have told us IMO the termination was justified. Job abandonment.

Not if you read the Art 705 contract language that he is covered by.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Local 705 Agreement . . .
ARTICLE 54. DISCHARGE AND SUSPENSION
The Employer shall not discharge or suspend any employee without just cause. No employee shall be suspended or discharged without first being verbally warned and the warning being documented, except for the following offenses:
a) Dishonesty;
(b) Drinking of, or under the influence of alcoholic beverages (as specified in Article 35 herein above) or narcotics during the workday;
(c) Personal possession or the use of drugs, marijuana or L.S.D. during the work day;
(d) Gross negligence resulting in a serious accident as defined in Article 18.
(e) The carrying of unauthorized passengers while on the job;
(friend) Failure to report an accident;
(g) A runaway accident;
(h) Sexual harassment;
(i) Fighting on the job.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not seeing "job abandonment" anywhere in there.

I will agree that he screwed up and did something pretty stupid...instead of just going home he should have gone back to work even though his shift was over and explained what happened to his supervisor. Disciplinary action of some sort is certainly warranted, but unless there is more to the story that we arent hearing about I think that termination is a bit extreme.

 

[grgrcr88]

If the steward lied about filing the grievance then tes you would have legal recourse. You need to go to your local union hall and sit down with your Business Agent to discuss what has been done and what should be done in the future. First thing you need to see is the Written Termination letter from the company. Next is the Grievance on your behalf. (Around here you have to fill out the grievance yourself and give it to a Steward or B/A to present to the company, all within 10 days of the date of termination)

If both those things are done properly, a local level hearing should be set with the company and the local B/A to hear the facts of the case and try to work something out. Usually the local hearings are scheduled on the same day every month and there will be many, many cases heard all on that day. Find out when that is!!

If you lose that your done with the grievace process, you have the option to persue legal avenues after that. If its deadlocked it wil go on to the state level hearing, which is also scheduled for the same time every month. It may involve multiple states and you probably will have to travel somewhere for the hearng. Again, same as local. If you lose your done, win reinstated, deadlock on to the next level. That could be a JAC hearing, after that if still not resolved then to Arbitration if chosen.



You do not know the phone number to your local UPS branch? How old are you?

 

[grgrcr88]

Not if you read the Art 705 contract language that he is covered by.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Local 705 Agreement . . .
ARTICLE 54. DISCHARGE AND SUSPENSION
The Employer shall not discharge or suspend any employee without just cause. No employee shall be suspended or discharged without first being verbally warned and the warning being documented, except for the following offenses:
a) Dishonesty;
(b) Drinking of, or under the influence of alcoholic beverages (as specified in Article 35 herein above) or narcotics during the workday;
(c) Personal possession or the use of drugs, marijuana or L.S.D. during the work day;
(d) Gross negligence resulting in a serious accident as defined in Article 18.
(e) The carrying of unauthorized passengers while on the job;
(friend) Failure to report an accident;
(g) A runaway accident;
(h) Sexual harassment;
(i) Fighting on the job.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not seeing "job abandonment" anywhere in there.

I will agree that he screwed up and did something pretty stupid...instead of just going home he should have gone back to work even though his shift was over and explained what happened to his supervisor. Disciplinary action of some sort is certainly warranted, but unless there is more to the story that we arent hearing about I think that termination is a bit extreme.

Agreed, In our suplement we have an "Other Serious Offenses" reason in the cardinal infractions section. I am suprised all suplements don't!! I wish ours didn't!!! Acording to his supplement he should have never been terminated, I would be interested to see the term letter and see if this was done by procedure?

 

[hondo]

....
My first question is how long do arbitration hearings take to set up, and is there any way I can set up my own arbitration hearing? (do you have any idea of how much an arbitrator costs?)
If or when your case goes to the UPS/705 Grievance Committee (panel), there will be an arbitrator there to make a decision in case of a panel deadlock. No more waiting 2 or 3 years, like it used to take. But it can still take several months to get there.
Second is if they have grounds to fire me for a first time offense, even for something considered "workplace abandonment"? Apparently it's not a first offense, according to a later post of yours.
From what I understand you have to be given a verbal and written warning for everything besides being drunk and stealing.

Finally, if I did end up getting it back, is there any chance of back pay? Maybe, depends on the wording of the grievance, and the decision of the panel or arbitrator. Or is that extremely hard to fight for? I've now missed 2 months, and it's peak season so i'm missing so much more.
....

From what you have told us IMO the termination was justified. Job abandonment.

Could you point out where "Job abandonment" is listed as an offense warranting immediate discharge in Article 54 of the 705/UPS contract. Conveniently, it is 3 posts above yours (thank you, JonFrum). Unless it's in there, it should be subject to progressive discipline. Having said that, I don't foresee the operations manager, the panel or an arbitrator being lenient, considering he didn't call or return to work ASAP.

Was there a grievance filed in a timely manner for the termination? By timely I mean within 10 days of the date of termination. If not, you have no chance to return to work.
HERE (L705 only), the deadline for discipline/discharge grievances is 15 days. All others, 30 days.
I have to ask, why did you not use the payphone at the gas station to call your sup when you called your friend?

I was given a write up on a day when myself and a few others clocked ourselves out when the shift ended and the supervisor was nowhere to be found. Could that be considered job abandonment in any way, even though i clocked out and the shift was over? Also, is every write up considered a verbal warning or do they need to specify it?

This, my brother, could be very damning. How long ago did this happen? Was a steward present? How was it worded on your Pittsburg? Did you sign it? Was a rebuttal to the warning filed by a steward?

The steward filled out the grievance paper with the supervisor still there, although I have no clue if he actually filed it in time because the business manager said he hadn't heard of my case yet. I have reasons to believe the steward is friends with that supervisor and didn't file it because he thought I would just walk away, and another steward said people made complaints about him in the past. If he lied about filing it is there anything I can do?

When the steward filled out the grievance form did you see your boss sign it, and get the pink copy? If so, then it is filed. Unless of course the steward screwed up writing the grievance, or agreed to your discharge. If it wasn't filed, or filed properly, you may have basis for an unfair labor practice/duty of fair representation charge against Local 705. Check with the Region 13 office of the NLRB, try 312-353-7571. If it were me, I'd make an appointment to meet with the union business agent/representative to discuss the case, and let him or her know you very much want your job back. Ask how many meetings have been held, and with whom? Take notes. And get a copy of the grievance, or at least the grievance #. Let him/her know you'd like to be present at any upcoming lower level meetings, but be prepared to just sit quietly at them, many times the grievant is their worst enemy when they start to talk. You would have the opportunity to be at the panel (it would reflect poorly on your case if you weren't at panel).

I don't know my supervisor's number by heart, I've only had to call him once and it's stored in my phone.
A bit of advice to you and any other part-timers, write your call-in number on the back of your ID.

Wow, went to the gas station on break? Were you that low on gas, and was the gas station going to be closed after your shift? And when you did get back into your car, you didn't call or go back to work? Did you get a witness statement from the gas station attendant? You could try to get one now, but after 2 months, it might not have much credibility. An amazing story, hope it's true. If not, that would be dishonesty, see Article 54(a) above.
Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

 

[hondo]

From what you have told us IMO the termination was justified. Job abandonment.

You are certainly entitled to form your own opinion, and thank you for sharing it.

 

[hondo]

Agreed, In our suplement we have an "Other Serious Offenses" reason in the cardinal infractions section. I am suprised all suplements don't!! I wish ours didn't!!! Acording to his supplement he should have never been terminated, I would be interested to see the term letter and see if this was done by procedure?

It's only three more words, how much harm could they do?Oh, wait. Uh-oh.

 

[CRASH501]

WOW , THIS SOUNDS ALL TOO FAMILIAR.........
UPS would never violate the contract , YEAH RIGHT!
The ever so optimistic bloggers on this site will constantly swear the company was right.
.
Arbitration could take over a year
____yes you may get your job back , back pay or just your job back.....these Arbitrators for the most part will see the truth, if you actually can start to document everything and i meen EVERYTHING , every phone call to management , the union, human resourses ect........
try and get a statement from the gas station attendandt as well as having your friend available to testify during the hearing.
_____ GET COPIES OF YOUR CELL PHONE RECORDS A.S.A.P. highlight every single call to ups as you will need these records. Also have the call to your friend for a ride documented.
.
I just went through an Arbitration myself and wow is it brutal!

 

[Dertold33]

This, my brother, could be very damning. How long ago did this happen? Was a steward present? How was it worded on your Pittsburg? Did you sign it? Was a rebuttal to the warning filed by a steward?

This happened only a month or two before this incident, i believe a union steward was present and I RTS everything. I doubt any rebuttal was filed.

My BA didn't explain anything about a panel voting, so now i'm a bit worried he doesn't think it's worth the time. I guess i'll ask him about a panel hearing next time I talk to him. I'm fairly certain a grievance was filed for me because i'm still an active employee on the work number website and I got payed for thanksgiving vacation / unused option days.

I didn't think clocking out without a supervisor's permission at the end of the day was considered job abandonment, which is why I said it's a first time offense. If it is though i'm probably out of luck, unless the write up wasn't a verbal warning. Can anybody confirm if that's considered job abandonment or not?

Thanks for all of the helpful responses, this forum is great. I just really hope my union isn't trying to wait it out until i give up =/

 

[UPSGUY72]

Sence we do have all the information from you past warnings and write ups we can not give you a correct anwser just a guess. You may or may not get your job back it all depends on how bad you want it back. From what you telling us not to bad. Keep calling your BA. I would have called him the next day right after I talked to a steward.

 

[JonFrum]

I didn't think clocking out without a supervisor's permission at the end of the day was considered job abandonment . . .

It isn't.

In fact, you're doing the Supervisors a favor. An important part of their job is to scour the building towards the end of the shift and flush as many hourlies as they can. The more people they can get off the clock the better. And the earlier the better.
- - - -
Don't let anyone say you are guilty of Job Abandonment. That's a wild exageration. To be guilty of the offense you have to do it intentionally and knowingly and fail to report for work day after day. In your case you made errors in judgement, but understandable and excusable ones under the circumstances. You didn't ask to be locked out of your car, or for the phone and the Supervisor's number to be locked inside, or for the shift to be over by the time you got things straightened out.

 

[hondo]

This happened only a month or two before this incident, i believe a union steward was present and I RTS everything. I doubt any rebuttal was filed.
Could have been filed without you knowing, hopefully it was. Definitely good you didn't sign.

My BA didn't explain anything about a panel voting, so now i'm a bit worried he doesn't think it's worth the time. I guess i'll ask him about a panel hearing next time I talk to him. I'm fairly certain a grievance was filed for me because i'm still an active employee on the work number website and I got payed for thanksgiving vacation / unused option days.

I didn't think clocking out without a supervisor's permission at the end of the day was considered job abandonment, which is why I said it's a first time offense. If it is though i'm probably out of luck, unless the write up wasn't a verbal warning. Can anybody confirm if that's considered job abandonment or not?

In the situation you described, in my opinion, no. In fact if you all (you alluded to several of your coworkers) hadn't clocked out, then started walking around looking for your supervisor, it's possible the company could then have tried to pull their 'stealing time' charge. Be sure to let your BA know about this incident so he doesn't get blindsided by it.

Thanks for all of the helpful responses, this forum is great. I just really hope my union isn't trying to wait it out until i give up =/

 

[castor915]

Im sure you can get your job back as some others have said.
Back pay will be out of the question i think it will be suspension served.
Expect it to go to the panel tho I dont think they will hash it out locally