if hoffa win

Inthegame

Well-Known Member
Where did I state I or anyone was "instructed" to fill the ballot out with a pencil, and what makes you think if I asked for a pen would it make any difference if vote altering was the goal? All I stated was that a pencil was the only writing utensil supplied to fill out the ballots. And no I did not witness any vote changing, but the very fact that a pencil was the only offered writing utensil was certainly a sign that ballot altering was a real possibility. When I vote for President, Senator, or Mayor it is done on a paper ballot with a pen because, believe it or not, a pen is more permanent than a pencil. Whether you want to admit it or not the Teamsters have a history of severe corruption, and the way local official elections are held certainly doesn't lead me to believe the corruption has been eliminated.

May I also suggest before you go off using words like "hypocrisy" I suggest you understand the meaning of the word before using it. Nowhere in this discussion is hypocrisy a word that can be applied to either of us. I understand you want to sound intelligent, but using words when you obviously don't know the real meaning will only expose you for the fool that you are.
My point is, I have a bit more experience in the conduction of local union officer elections than you have. I have served on election committees at locals other than my own. Obviously you have not witnessed the operation of a ballot count. It is a very transparent exercise with little chance of impropriety. I agree there is always a minute chance of cheating but your infered allegation that a pencil marked ballot (and I have never seen this occur) would be altered, fails even a rudimentary criminal mind. Your theory would require a pencil marked ballot to be erased completely (as any evidence left behind would void the ballot at the count), then remarked for another candidate. Ballots once marked are either possessed by the post office (mail in ballots) or under the supervision of an OES approved third party. The post office holds ballots until the election committee retrieves them with candidate observers present. In walk in elections, the Election Officer under the guidelines of the OES controls the process, again with candidate observers watching every step. At the count, all ballots are at all times under the supervision of candidate observers. How could a ballot be remarked in this scenario?

Unless you have witnessed an entire election process, you are making a judgemental supposition without a factual basis. Several posters on other threads have done the same concerning your prefered Presidential candidate. If you reread your responses to them, you may see why I chose my words correctly.

You are accurate that the IBT has had corruption in their past. Many respected companies have corruption in their past. The DOL requires unions to report every incident. Very little dirty laundry is required to be reported by companies.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
My father was a BA and a Pension Fund Administrator for years. The rules governing elections in Unions, in particular, are so stringent. The opportunity for fraud is there, I am sure, but it would be extremely difficult.

Please be sure of that.
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
My point is, I have a bit more experience in the conduction of local union officer elections than you have. I have served on election committees at locals other than my own. Obviously you have not witnessed the operation of a ballot count. It is a very transparent exercise with little chance of impropriety. I agree there is always a minute chance of cheating but your infered allegation that a pencil marked ballot (and I have never seen this occur) would be altered, fails even a rudimentary criminal mind. Your theory would require a pencil marked ballot to be erased completely (as any evidence left behind would void the ballot at the count), then remarked for another candidate. Ballots once marked are either possessed by the post office (mail in ballots) or under the supervision of an OES approved third party. The post office holds ballots until the election committee retrieves them with candidate observers present. In walk in elections, the Election Officer under the guidelines of the OES controls the process, again with candidate observers watching every step. At the count, all ballots are at all times under the supervision of candidate observers. How could a ballot be remarked in this scenario?

Unless you have witnessed an entire election process, you are making a judgemental supposition without a factual basis. Several posters on other threads have done the same concerning your prefered Presidential candidate. If you reread your responses to them, you may see why I chose my words correctly.

You are accurate that the IBT has had corruption in their past. Many respected companies have corruption in their past. The DOL requires unions to report every incident. Very little dirty laundry is required to be reported by companies.

Look, I get it, you are a union shill who will not, for any reason, acknowledge that corruption still exists within the Teamsters Union. Perhaps not to the level that made the Teamsters famous, but its still there. I know what I experienced, and I am not saying I know for sure that the election was rigged, but the possibility was definitely present and considering the history of the teamsters union it is not a real stretch to understand what very well could have been going on.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Look, I get it, you are a union shill who will not, for any reason, acknowledge that corruption still exists within the Teamsters Union. Perhaps not to the level that made the Teamsters famous, but its still there. I know what I experienced, and I am not saying I know for sure that the election was rigged, but the possibility was definitely present and considering the history of the teamsters union it is not a real stretch to understand what very well could have been going on.

Listen, lets say youre telling the truth (which for conversations sake, we know youre not) and this happened at your polling station. Lets get a few things out of the way.

1) the election company who put on this polling station would be in violation of election rules if it was established that this was the case.

2) there are election officials all over the place, and YOU in no way could enter the polling station and make your own decisions on what instrument to use.

3) if the facts are as you say they are, YOU have an OBLIGATION as a TEAMSTER, an EMPLOYEE and as a person with GOOD CONSCIENCE to REPORT the situation immediately upon discovering it.

IT is YOUR responsibility to report such events to the election officials, and if you failed to do so, you FAILED your obligation to the Teamsters and your OATH to the brotherhood.

You want to make assertions on this message board and expect to have some credibility to your claims, yet, you participated in an election that you believe was "rigged" or open to "tampering".

What is a real "stretch" is to believe you were dumb enough to fill out a ballot with pencil with all your "alledged" experience with Teamster elections ie: "considering the history of the teamsters union it is not a real stretch to understand what very well could have been going on..."

There is still time to fill a complaint to the election officials and with just YOUR CLAIM, if proved to be true, could overturn the election results and a new election would be scheduled.

Show your integrity to this message board, file a complaint ASAP and let us know who you complained to. I will take it from there.

Otherwise, dont make baseless claims about Teamster elections cause you feel like smearing your local.

Peace.
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Look, I get it, you are a union shill who will not, for any reason, acknowledge that corruption still exists within the Teamsters Union. Perhaps not to the level that made the Teamsters famous, but its still there. I know what I experienced, and I am not saying I know for sure that the election was rigged, but the possibility was definitely present and considering the history of the teamsters union it is not a real stretch to understand what very well could have been going on.

Listen, lets say youre telling the truth (which for conversations sake, we know youre not) and this happened at your polling station. Lets get a few things out of the way.

1) the election company who put on this polling station would be in violation of election rules if it was established that this was the case.

2) there are election officials all over the place, and YOU in no way could enter the polling station and make your own decisions on what instrument to use.

3) if the facts are as you say they are, YOU have an OBLIGATION as a TEAMSTER, an EMPLOYEE and as a person with GOOD CONSCIENCE to REPORT the situation immediately upon discovering it.

IT is YOUR responsibility to report such events to the election officials, and if you failed to do so, you FAILED your obligation to the Teamsters and your OATH to the brotherhood.

You want to make assertions on this message board and expect to have some credibility to your claims, yet, you participated in an election that you believe was "rigged" or open to "tampering".

What is a real "stretch" is to believe you were dumb enough to fill out a ballot with pencil with all your "alledged" experience with Teamster elections ie: "considering the history of the teamsters union it is not a real stretch to understand what very well could have been going on..."

There is still time to fill a complaint to the election officials and with just YOUR CLAIM, if proved to be true, could overturn the election results and a new election would be scheduled.

Show your integrity to this message board, file a complaint ASAP and let us know who you complained to. I will take it from there.

Otherwise, dont make baseless claims about Teamster elections cause you feel like smearing your local.

Peace.[/QUOTE]

Anyone else find it amusing that the person with the least credibility on these forums is accusing me of making baseless accusations? Continue living in your dream world that the teamsters are corruption free, and since you believe that so strongly perhaps you can go ask James Hoffa where his dad is and see what the response is.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Anyone else find it amusing that the person with the least credibility on these forums is accusing me of making baseless accusations? Continue living in your dream world that the teamsters are corruption free, and since you believe that so strongly perhaps you can go ask James Hoffa where his dad is and see what the response is.
Yes, I find it amusing. When I think "corruption", 2 things come to mind......Mafia & Unions!!
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Anyone else find it amusing that the person with the least credibility on these forums is accusing me of making baseless accusations? Continue living in your dream world that the teamsters are corruption free, and since you believe that so strongly perhaps you can go ask James Hoffa where his dad is and see what the response is.

So there you have it, your claim is as weak as a used tea bag. No nuts no glory.

You are nothing more than a smack talking story teller.

Peace.
 

Inthegame

Well-Known Member
Look, I get it, you are a union shill who will not, for any reason, acknowledge that corruption still exists within the Teamsters Union. Perhaps not to the level that made the Teamsters famous, but its still there. I know what I experienced, and I am not saying I know for sure that the election was rigged, but the possibility was definitely present and considering the history of the teamsters union it is not a real stretch to understand what very well could have been going on.
I believe I acknowledged corruption has occured in the Teamsters. My response was to your inferred charge that a local union election was improper.
When you refer to others as "fools'' or "shills" you are grasping and losing the point. You know nothing about me, my character or moral beliefs. I believe you've called others on that also. Once again...hypocrisy.
 

Inthegame

Well-Known Member
My father was a BA and a Pension Fund Administrator for years. The rules governing elections in Unions, in particular, are so stringent. The opportunity for fraud is there, I am sure, but it would be extremely difficult.

Please be sure of that.
Thank you Me, and thanks to your father for his selfless service as a BA and Fund Administrator. I'm sure he understands far more than any of the lunchroom lawyers on these threads.
 
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