If this company was employee owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Lol at your "Not up for a pissing match" followed by insults.

I'm out.

Not meant as an insult, just pointing out a different philosophy.
The "why don't you put on a tie" thing has always rubbed me wrong.
If I was looking to really get into "it", I would wait till I got home and copy and paste you into hypocrisy as this hasn't always been your position.
I'm good with "I'm out" if you are.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
And I certainly don't care if the company is around in another 100 years, 10 ought to be more than enough.

What a selfishly foolish thing to say.

I figured you to be a lot smarter than that. Maybe in your off the cuff remark, you did not consider that UPS is one of the very few that are contributing to the funds? That without UPS kicking in that money, you would have to take much less retirement than what you planned on getting? Or are you that small minded that you would wish all the rest of the 100,000 some already retired UPSers to take cuts in their retirement?

Teamsters retirement in most areas are woefully under funded. And no way UPS could ever contribute enough over the next ten years to keep them going.

Best

d
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Wow, after reading more of what was said, I am shocked to know how many people at UPS could care less about integrity and honesty. It has nothing to do with being directed to lie or falsify documents, we get that all the time. But what gets me is those of you that willingly accept doing that because "the man" told me to. Wow. I guess integrity is gone at UPS

d
 

bottomups

Bad Moon Risen'
I guess I'm just old school! Almost 30 years with this company. I will not sheet a package as EC unless the conditions warrant it. Have been told in the past to sheet as directed. I simply send the package back in the TP60 and have them sheet it any way they want to at the center.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
To all contributors to this thread,

I have enjoyed the spirited discussion about this serious failure on the parts of management and hourly employees alike.

I believe any management person who "directs" an employee to falsify delivery records should be fired.

I also believe that anyone who intentionally falisifys delivery records should be fired.

If it is done as directed by a management person then the management person and the hourly person should be fired.

Working as directed is not an excuse to commit what amounts to no less than a crime.

I don't mean to be harsh and I hope some of you don't get mad at me.

I care enough to tell you the truth as I see it in hopes of encouraging some change in thought and action.

Sincerely,
I
 
For anyone told or instructed to sheet packages as emergency conditions and they don't believe it's the honest thing to do. Work as instructed and grieve it.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
To all contributors to this thread,

I have enjoyed the spirited discussion about this serious failure on the parts of management and hourly employees alike.

I believe any management person who "directs" an employee to falsify delivery records should be fired.

I also believe that anyone who intentionally falisifys delivery records should be fired.

If it is done as directed by a management person then the management person and the hourly person should be fired.

Working as directed is not an excuse to commit what amounts to no less than a crime.

I don't mean to be harsh and I hope some of you don't get mad at me.

I care enough to tell you the truth as I see it in hopes of encouraging some change in thought and action.

Sincerely,
I

It would seem that any hourly employee who is directed by management to sheet a package a certain way and they refuse are totally lacking in INTEGRITY.
Just my opinion and I hope you don't get mad at me but ... that's what the contract says and anyone not going by the terms and conditions of the contract are totally without INTEGRITY.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
It would seem that any hourly employee who is directed by management to sheet a package a certain way and they refuse are totally lacking in INTEGRITY.
Just my opinion and I hope you don't get mad at me but ... that's what the contract says and anyone not going by the terms and conditions of the contract are totally without INTEGRITY.
Hoaxster,

I definitely am not mad at you. I hope no one else is.

Can you please provide the article and section of the contract that contain the terms and conditions your have mentioned in your post?

Thank You.

Sincerely,
I
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Hoaxster,

I definitely am not mad at you. I hope no one else is.

Can you please provide the article and section of the contract that contain the terms and conditions your have mentioned in your post?

Thank You.

Sincerely,
I

Can you provide the article and section where it is not?

Try asking one of the stewards whether an Union hourly is bound by the contract to "work as directed".
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
Hoax

You are bound to work as instructed unless the instructions are unsafe. The authors of the contract did not have any idea that management would ask hourly to do something that is improper, much less wrong and dishonest.

For all the years I was at UPS and refused to sheet packages other than what they actually were, and all the times I was instructed to put only 10/100's preload but instead punched out when I actually left, there were no repercussions. I refused to follow dishonest direction. I did not refuse to do my job, I refused to be dishonest.

I find it interesting that along all walks of management, this is not only accepted behavior, but whole heartedly encouraged at all levels. This aint your fathers UPS......

d
 

Packmule

Well-Known Member
We would add a few drivers to every facility as needed to do the job right. Then we would get rid of 2/3 the management, keeping only the best. Those remaining would be required to ask one question when considering everything they do: What does it do to make hourly jobs easier not harder? if not much it would be terminated. We would provide preloaders with color-coded spa labels. We would do whatever it takes in the feeder department to get package drivers on the road by 8:30 a.m.--no excuses. We would find a new auto insurance company that doesn't punish its customers for accidents that are not legally their fault. We would terminate NDA time of day commits for anything outside city limits of commited towns and meet the occasional needs of rural residents with a rural early a.m. product that costs enough to pay an air driver to handle it. ETC. ETC. I could go on forever with the things we would do to make this a safe, reliable, and profitable company.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Can you provide the article and section where it is not?

Try asking one of the stewards whether an Union hourly is bound by the contract to "work as directed".
Hoaxster,

Yes, there are many articles and sections that does not contain references to the
term "work as directed".

Please forgive me for being dense. Please confirm.

You want me to ask one of the stewards whether a Union Hourly is contractually bound by to do whatever a management person directs?

According to you a Union hourly is contractually bound to:

violate safety training at the direction of management

falsify delivery records at the direction of management

driver release next day air packages prior to delivery at the direction of management

mistreat customers packages at the direction of management

misreport a workplace injury at the direction of management

lie at the direction of management

etc. etc.

Is this what you want me to ask one of the stewards?

Sincerely,
I
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Hoax

You are bound to work as instructed unless the instructions are unsafe. The authors of the contract did not have any idea that management would ask hourly to do something that is improper, much less wrong and dishonest.

For all the years I was at UPS and refused to sheet packages other than what they actually were, and all the times I was instructed to put only 10/100's preload but instead punched out when I actually left, there were no repercussions. I refused to follow dishonest direction. I did not refuse to do my job, I refused to be dishonest.

I find it interesting that along all walks of management, this is not only accepted behavior, but whole heartedly encouraged at all levels. This aint your fathers UPS......

d

No it's not but I guess I was unlucky because I never saw your father's UPS ... although I have heard about it for over 30 years.
 

DS

Fenderbender
Hoaxster,

I definitely am not mad at you. I hope no one else is.

Can you please provide the article and section of the contract that contain the terms and conditions your have mentioned in your post?

Thank You.

Sincerely,
I

I have an old ca book here and it says:

ARTICLE 6
A grievance shall consist of a dispute concerning interpretation and application of any clause in this agreement, alleged violations of the agreement and alleged abuses of discretion by supervision in the treatment of employees contrary to the terms of the agreement. If any question arises as to whether a particular dispute is or is not a grievance within the meaning of these provisions, the question may be taken up through the grievance procedure and determined, if necessary, by arbitration. There shall be earnest effort on the part of both parties to settle such grievances promptly through the following steps of which the grievor may be accompanied by the steward and/or a business representative.

Thank my wife for typing that out for me :happy2:
If you sheet pkgs as missed after being told to sheet them as ECON,you are failing to follow instructions.
As far as ethics and standing up for what you believe goes,well I for one would
can not afford to be fired and have it go to arbitration.
So I agree with SD and overnine,a 55 year old driver looking to retire soon is more focused on reality,and have no aspirations to be the pope.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
You want me to ask one of the stewards whether a Union Hourly is contractually bound by to do whatever a management person directs?
Yup, that is exactly what he is saying

According to you a Union hourly is contractually bound to:

violate safety training at the direction of management
Happens. But it is more at the suggestion, with a good deal of support and back slapping
falsify delivery records at the direction of management
That is exactly what he is saying
driver release next day air packages prior to delivery at the direction of management
That too. Of course, we actually never said to do it, but you know what we meant.......
mistreat customers packages at the direction of management
Well I have never heard of a manager telling an employee to mistreat a package.....
misreport a workplace injury at the direction of management
Oh yeah, not actually to misreport, but not to report it at all. After all, you are a UPS driver. Shake it off, stretch, take a couple of aspirin, and keep on going.
lie at the direction of management
What, you think management would ask us to lie? What do you think we are doing to the customer who's package we ECONed because we were out of hours, and they did not want to cut a route in today?
etc. etc.

Is this what you want me to ask one of the stewards?
Question is, do you really want to know what the stewards will tell you?

Integrity

Now I think you are getting the big picture at what life is like at UPS. Welcome to the "real world". At least Hoax has the integrity to post that much of management lacks integrity, and will misuse its position with the hourly to have them do it as well. But of course we already knew that.

Sorry to be the bearer of such news.

One last thought for the poster that started this thread. AS you can see, the very stockholders/employee owners at UPS that are the ones directing its workforce to lie to, and steal from the customer.

d
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Integrity

Now I think you are getting the big picture at what life is like at UPS. Welcome to the "real world". At least Hoax has the integrity to post that much of management lacks integrity, and will misuse its position with the hourly to have them do it as well. But of course we already knew that.

Sorry to be the bearer of such news.

One last thought for the poster that started this thread. AS you can see, the very stockholders/employee owners at UPS that are the ones directing its workforce to lie to, and steal from the customer.

d

Now Danny,
You know I did not say that!
Your twisting and making up that I said, " ...that much of management lacks integrity, and will misuse its position with the hourly to have them do it as well." is totally unethical and lacking in INTEGRITY.
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
After reading this thread I wish I was not a mod.
Integrity?
What person that has worked for UPS for 24yrs has not violated the rules.
Name one.
I could name you hundreds of union and management people that have openly broken the rules.
How many of you die hard integrity demanding people have called in sick, when you were not?
NI 1 a pkg, because it was out of the way, in the days of paper.
I could name so many ways that I have seen the game played by union and management.
It took me 21 one years to call in my first day sick.
When my work ethic is called into question, I get pissed.
I ECON as a refusal that draws a line in the sand that I will not work after 10pm.
This is were my integrity and my self protection meet.
What is integral is that I am knowingly over dispatched, on a weekly basis.
Come on down and do what I am asked to do, then pontificate.
I know I must be part of the problem on how UPS abuses their employee's, but that is not my problem.
What has the union, or the general bitching of employee's, done to improve the lot of the proletariat over the last 25yrs?
Nada, except money that increases dues.
In summation.
Yes, I am a man with no honesty, integrity and low moral values.
The thing I am trying to get rid of is a strong work ethic.
I will have to work on that.


 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
For anyone told or instructed to sheet packages as emergency conditions and they don't believe it's the honest thing to do. Work as instructed and grieve it.

I don't disagree???
Only because we don't have each others back???
Otherwise it could (and should) be different.
 
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