If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of service.

[JonFrum]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Your pension is paid by the pension fund, which is completely seperate from UPS, (even though UPS executives are some of the trustees of the fund.) So you get your pension, however, since your career has been cut short, your future pension will be less than it would have been if you continued on to reach the 30 year benchmark.

Did these drivers report for duty and trigger a guaranteed eight hour payday? If so, then maybe, depending on the details, they are entitled to a day's pay. If a Supervisor chose to pay them with the wrong code, that is wrong, if deliberate, but it doesn't justify firing the drivers. They were entitled to the money. It's an internal matter how UPS chooses to record the hours for its own accounting purposes.

If an inside employee (no DIAD) receives 45 minutes of "Training," it isn't up to you that your supervisor puts you in for a full hour, or maybe doesn't put you in at all. Either way you get the same total pay for the day. It's all on-duty time. How they choose to record it is up to them.

 

[Braveheart]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

My opinion is the Manager should have been fired and that be it. When you lose chain of command a lot of new gray area rules creep in. Since the manager directed people under him to do something wrong, the burden should be on the manager. If he didn't know and the employee's were doing something wrong, you can them instead. Why I say this is day in and day out we work with our managers, if we start questioning everything they ask, then less gets done and the chain of command is failing, the structure is weak. IMO the onus is on the manager here, he bamboozled those underneath him. But when you are at a company that wants to rid employees for any reason, you get this. UPS upper-management most likely won this day.

They were working as instructed. Wrong but they were owed their 8 hour guarantee so it is not stealing just paid under the wrong pay code and under false or fraudulant means. Manager was trying to avoid grievances so he paid the workers and tried to hide it without the upper brass finding out.

All were stupid and it is understandable that all were fired. However the workers were working as instructing so they should get their jobs back provided it is reduced to a suspension without pay and they must repay the company the jury duty pay in full.

Pension??? Good question???

 

[satellitedriver]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

What kind of stupid drivers you got there? They all deserve to be fired. Honestly, how stupid can they be????

 

[over9five]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Thats the funniest scam on UPS I have ever heard of. I have a feeling if they dig deeper that this is only the tip of the iceberg.

I was wondering that too. How many times did they do this before they were caught?

 

[Dragon]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

They were working as instructed. Your kidding right.. Wrong but they were owed their 8 hour guarantee...stop the madness UPS made me do it!! so it is not stealing just paid under the wrong pay code and under false or fraudulant means. Manager was trying to avoid grievances so he paid the workers and tried to hide it without the upper brass finding out.

All were stupid and it is understandable that all were fired. However the workers were working as instructing so they should get their jobs back provided it is reduced to a suspension without pay and they must repay the company the jury duty pay in full.

Pension??? Good question???

Officer, I only killed him a little bit....

 

[Anonymous 10]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

No one in payroll noticed all of these drivers getting jury duty pay? Sounds like a BS story. You can't just collect jury duty pay without court documents to back it up. Also if you recieve pay from the courts you have to reimburse UPS.

This is probably how they figured it out.

 

[Jones]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

I'm still not clear on why the supervisor involved was doing this. How did it benefit him to pay these guys jury duty instead of laying them off?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Here's the problem I have.

Over made a good post about "how stupid can these drivers be"

What some may be forgetting is that it IS possible the supervisor, like Braveheart said, was simply coding the hours as Jury Duty to falsify the records to upper-management and keep the on-road hours and routes on area at an "Acceptable" level according to the numbers upper management dictated.

Now, as a driver, do you really care how they code your hours? if you come in, work for 4 hours and by 1pm the sup calls and says "want to go home, we'll pay you 8 hours"...are you going to say no?

IF you look at it that way, the drivers may have been the ones scammed, if anything. Personally, like SoberUPS has said, I don't care HOW I get paid, but I do care that I get paid for every minute that I'm working and/or guaranteed. It is NOT the drivers doing the misclassification of hours in this case.

It seems, anyway, it WAS the drivers and sups taking advantage of this little scheme -but the drivers were NOT the ones doing the scheming.

 

[brownmonster]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Here's the problem I have.

Over made a good post about "how stupid can these drivers be"

What some may be forgetting is that it IS possible the supervisor, like Braveheart said, was simply coding the hours as Jury Duty to falsify the records to upper-management and keep the on-road hours and routes on area at an "Acceptable" level according to the numbers upper management dictated.

Now, as a driver, do you really care how they code your hours? if you come in, work for 4 hours and by 1pm the sup calls and says "want to go home, we'll pay you 8 hours"...are you going to say no?

IF you look at it that way, the drivers may have been the ones scammed, if anything. Personally, like SoberUPS has said, I don't care HOW I get paid, but I do care that I get paid for every minute that I'm working and/or guaranteed. It is NOT the drivers doing the misclassification of hours in this case.

It seems, anyway, it WAS the drivers and sups taking advantage of this little scheme -but the drivers were NOT the ones doing the scheming.

This is the underlying problem. If the company had realistic expectations for operations, they wouldn't have so many people cheating to try to make the numbers.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

This is the underlying problem. If the company had realistic expectations for operations, they wouldn't have so many people cheating to try to make the numbers.

Agree 100%. realism = complacency in a numbers driven, fear-based work environment. Unrealistic expectations get the most water from the stone.

 

[soberups]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Pension eligibility is a function of age, years of service and vesting status. How or why an employee is terminated has no bearing on when he/she can collect or how much he/she receives.

Its hard to make any sort of judgement about this particular case without all of the specific details of what actually ocurred. My general opinion would be that if these employees signed any sort of jury duty form...knowing full well that they were not actually performing jury duty....then they are indeed guilty of theft and dishonesty and should be fired immediately. But if they simply took a day off or left before their guranteed 8 and the sup coded the time as jury duty in order to look better on paper, then it is the sup and not the employees who are guilty.

 

[trplnkl]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

The Original poster stated that the Sup asked who wanted to go home and get paid Jury Duty. That would imply the drivers knew they would be paid under a false code. Both guilty in my thoughts. However, If I had received that offer from my sup, I would have asked him to just not pay me, I would survive with a day less pay. If I couldn't afford to lose the days pay, I would just say no thanks, I'll just work.

This kinda of comes back to how guilty is one if the know a crime is being committed and does not say anything about it to anyone.

 

[Just Numbers]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Let's get all the facts. This is just like rumors, 2+2=4, by the time it gets back to you the answer is 13!

 

[over9five]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

The Original poster stated that the Sup asked who wanted to go home and get paid Jury Duty.
....

We all know who we work for. If someone were to say that to me, I would have to be STUPID not to think I was being set up.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

We all know who we work for. If someone were to say that to me, I would have to be STUPID not to think I was being set up.

It depends. IF a sup is cheating and the employee is not aware, how are they (the employee) guilty? I mean we can suspect all day long, but if we cannot trust our management then how does "work as directed" apply?

 

[dannyboy]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

First, if I buy this story, the pension is a done deal. Those that have been vested can begin drawing once they reach the proper age under their plan. So nothing is threatened by the reason for their being fired.

Now to the premise of the story. The way the poster told the tale, the drivers knew they were getting paid under false pretenses, and as such, any way you want to pin the tail on the ass, they are guilty of dishonesty. Please note, after being suspended for three days for investigative purposes, they were all fired. Why they allowed the sup to resign is a mystery........After all, he was dishonest as well, why not fire him too. That will of course appear on the employment record..... Why fire the hourly, but allow the sup to resign?????????

What is of interest to me is the following

In total it was about 14 plus I heard another 7 more were going to get hit again

There were about 14 drivers? I must agree with the above, how stupid can that many people be? But then how can another 7 more be hit again? Did you mean that there were 21 in total? Because after being fired, there is not much of a way UPS can hit you again for the same thing.

Stupid knows no limits......

d

 

[brownmonster]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Were these air drivers? When does a full time driver ever get asked if he wants to leave early. It's enough of a battle just to get an 8-hour once in a while.

 

[Not IN Trace]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Last time I checked the contract a employee is not responsable for the employer overpaying you or making a mistake on your paycheck...If the Monkey..oh I mean supervisior was stupid enough to pay those drivers to go home and not find them other work is on him and UPS...period.
How they got paid is not the employees responsability.

 

[dannyboy]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Not

a bunch of guys in my old center who got fired for accepting Jury Duty Pay from a supervisor, while not having Jury Duty

The drivers knew, according to the poster, that they were getting jury duty pay without serving. It does not matter if they were supposed to be off with pay or not, its that they knew they were getting something that they did not earn, or were legally entitled to. And since they had a hearing at which they were fired, it most likely is that they also knew they were not entitled to the pay, therefore stealing from the company. Yes, they had help (the sup), but they were still stealing. If it had only been a sup putting down the wrong code, then the company would not have had a cause to fire the employees.

But I am still wondering why they got fired for dishonesty, but the sup was allowed to resign? From what I keep hearing, all dishonest people get the same treatment, regardless of their position, but it seems not so?

d

 

[The Other Side]

Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv

Please people, lets quit with the schoolyard lawyering and stay with the objective data in this case. Its pretty simple to analyze.

Someone said "they are working as directed".... TIEGUY asked "seriously"..... Who is correct, in the legal sense? What would stand up in arbitration?

Forget about all your "FEELINGS" about the case and deal with the facts.

First, lets start with how this got started. It was the SUPERVISOR who made the offer to the employees and NOT the employees asking the SUPERVISOR. This is important because there has to be an "IMPETUS" to the action.

Clearly, the "IMPETUS" was created by the supervisor and it was the supervisor who has the OBLIGATION to inform the employees of ALL CONSEQUENCES when being "DIRECTED".

This includes informing the employees that the suggested action carried terminable consequences. This fact cannot be ignored. In arbitration, establishing the person responsible for the initial action can determine the "CULPABILITY" of the other persons involved.

A supervisor who is conspiring to commit a dishonest action against the company has NO RIGHT to involve the employees he is responsible for managing.

The employees, whether or not knew the action could be considered dishonest can be relieved of that responsibility by virtue of being reliant on "DIRECTION" from a superior in charge of the operation.

Now, that does not mean the employees are in the total clear. An arbitor would make them repay the days they were "IMPROPERLY" coded, but award them to be made "WHOLE" for all the days they were out on discharge.

Working as directed is the critical key to the defense of these employees.

Regardless of coding, the dishonest action began with the supervisor and he had NO RIGHT to involve the employees on a scam to defraud the company.

One of the biggest problems with UPS is the failure to supervise their own supervisors. There are literally hundreds of instances where supervisors are "CHEATING" the system and go undetected.

The problem is systemic at UPS and this case is just one example of the corruption of the system at large.

In arbitration, this case would be a slam dunk for the Union, and I hope the local involved takes this case all the way.

Personal feelings, morality and the like do not suffice for objective circumspect, so all of you who believe the employees are guilty of dishonesty dont know CRAP about the legal implications.

The situation is indeed corrupt and somewhat funny, but it starts with UPS and ends with UPS in responsibility.

Peace.