Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Discussions
If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of service.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="The Other Side" data-source="post: 817206" data-attributes="member: 17969"><p><strong>Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv</strong></p><p></p><p>Dannyboy,</p><p> </p><p>What you are missing is pretty simple. An "OFFER" was made to the employees, that "OFFER" was NOT clearly explained by the supervisor responsible for managing the employees.</p><p> </p><p>A partial "OFFER" does NOT suffice for a conspiracy. BOTH parties would have to be in agreement for a conspiracy to occur. In order for the employees to be in agreement with the supervisor, they would have had to have been clearly informed of ALL circumstances and consequences, then and only then would a conspiracy between the parties occur.</p><p> </p><p>In this case, for some reason unknown to us all, the supervisor involved did not want to use "entitlements" or "rest day" coding for these employees. Based upon the number of affected employees, it can be assumed for the purpose of this conversation that the conspiracy began, ended and was maintained by this supervisor.</p><p> </p><p>Additionally, I am speaking about arbitration and not justice at the hub level. A complete investigation should have been conducted before anyone was fired and <strong>equal application</strong> of discipline enforced.</p><p> </p><p>This means, if you fired ONE employee for this action, then you fire any and ALL supervisors as well. Allowing the supervisor involved (or supervisors) to resign works against the company in arbitration. The arbitor would agree that unfair application of discipline was used since the company allowed the very person or persons responsible for creating the action to resign yet fired the very employees who particitpated after direction.</p><p> </p><p>You must understand that the word "DIRECTION" is an all encompassing word. Direction, includes any action on company property on or off the clock. If a supervisor informs an employee that he may take a day off with pay, but for some reason only known to the supervisor, decides to code the pay as jury duty instead of an entitlement, this is a direction.</p><p> </p><p>In order for a contract or conspiracy to occur, the employees would have had to have knowledge of "WHY" the supervisor chose to FALSELY code them. The employees would have had to have a choice in the matter, and in this case, it does not appear as they did. These employees had an 8 our guarantee for the day earned and that entitlement should not have been taken from them and a "DISHONEST OFFER" made in its replacement.</p><p> </p><p>Hopefully Dannyboy, you can understand this.</p><p> </p><p>A DISHONEST OFFER is not a substitute for an earned entitlement. </p><p> </p><p>Whether or not the employees knew that a false coding was going to be detrimental to them isnt the problem, the OFFER should have NEVER been made in the first place as the SUPERVISOR did not have the AUTHORITY to make such an OFFER in the first place.</p><p> </p><p>I have presented cases like this before and won each case as it came about. NO SUPERVISOR can place an employee in jeopardy without fully informing the employee of the likelyhood of consequences.</p><p> </p><p>Did the employees know it was wrong? Probably, but it does not change the circumstances. The direction was "hey, how would you like to go home and Ill pay you 8 hours as jury duty"</p><p> </p><p>There may have even been a implied guarantee by the supervisor like "dont worry, it will be cool". But this we do not know.</p><p> </p><p>We can only "assume" based upon the limited information available what the circumstances were, and only those with the experience of these types of cases can fill in the blanks.</p><p> </p><p>Working as directed will be the key to winning this case.</p><p> </p><p>Peace.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Other Side, post: 817206, member: 17969"] [b]Re: If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of serv[/b] Dannyboy, What you are missing is pretty simple. An "OFFER" was made to the employees, that "OFFER" was NOT clearly explained by the supervisor responsible for managing the employees. A partial "OFFER" does NOT suffice for a conspiracy. BOTH parties would have to be in agreement for a conspiracy to occur. In order for the employees to be in agreement with the supervisor, they would have had to have been clearly informed of ALL circumstances and consequences, then and only then would a conspiracy between the parties occur. In this case, for some reason unknown to us all, the supervisor involved did not want to use "entitlements" or "rest day" coding for these employees. Based upon the number of affected employees, it can be assumed for the purpose of this conversation that the conspiracy began, ended and was maintained by this supervisor. Additionally, I am speaking about arbitration and not justice at the hub level. A complete investigation should have been conducted before anyone was fired and [B]equal application[/B] of discipline enforced. This means, if you fired ONE employee for this action, then you fire any and ALL supervisors as well. Allowing the supervisor involved (or supervisors) to resign works against the company in arbitration. The arbitor would agree that unfair application of discipline was used since the company allowed the very person or persons responsible for creating the action to resign yet fired the very employees who particitpated after direction. You must understand that the word "DIRECTION" is an all encompassing word. Direction, includes any action on company property on or off the clock. If a supervisor informs an employee that he may take a day off with pay, but for some reason only known to the supervisor, decides to code the pay as jury duty instead of an entitlement, this is a direction. In order for a contract or conspiracy to occur, the employees would have had to have knowledge of "WHY" the supervisor chose to FALSELY code them. The employees would have had to have a choice in the matter, and in this case, it does not appear as they did. These employees had an 8 our guarantee for the day earned and that entitlement should not have been taken from them and a "DISHONEST OFFER" made in its replacement. Hopefully Dannyboy, you can understand this. A DISHONEST OFFER is not a substitute for an earned entitlement. Whether or not the employees knew that a false coding was going to be detrimental to them isnt the problem, the OFFER should have NEVER been made in the first place as the SUPERVISOR did not have the AUTHORITY to make such an OFFER in the first place. I have presented cases like this before and won each case as it came about. NO SUPERVISOR can place an employee in jeopardy without fully informing the employee of the likelyhood of consequences. Did the employees know it was wrong? Probably, but it does not change the circumstances. The direction was "hey, how would you like to go home and Ill pay you 8 hours as jury duty" There may have even been a implied guarantee by the supervisor like "dont worry, it will be cool". But this we do not know. We can only "assume" based upon the limited information available what the circumstances were, and only those with the experience of these types of cases can fill in the blanks. Working as directed will be the key to winning this case. Peace. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Discussions
If you're fired for Jury Duty paydo you collect Pension after 13-23 years of service.
Top