Illegal Anti-Union Meetings

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I know what Smith is thinking. Its all about the fluidity of the business model. The loss of the RLA exemption is problematic, and there is relatively little that Fedex can effectively do about it. I actually agree with a UPS spokesman who call Brownbailout.com turning up the noise. Even though i think Fedex has a cogent and intelligent challenge to the removal of that exemption, I don't know that it will matter.
That brings us to the IC legal battles. Without the exemption, I don't see that it is worth it for Fred to continue to operate separately. The simple savings made through incorporating the two and shedding 1/3 to 1/2 of expresses employees would easily fascillitate the continuation of legal battles. And if you doubt that the transition would be that easy, look at what Fedex has been spending their money on. I would be willing to bet that a simple reflash of the starIII scanners would allow us to scan express packages. I don't know about Express hubs but Ground hubs have been growing exponentially in size and sophistication. While most of Fedex posted huge losses Ground showed a slight profit. Knowing what we know of Mr. Smith it seems to defy logic to suggest that Ground contractors would be jettisoned when there remains legal precedent as well as IRS acknowledgement of the IC model.

Another courier told me that he tried his PowerPad on a Ground package and was successfully able to scan it. You might try your device on an Express pkg and see what happens.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Another courier told me that he tried his PowerPad on a Ground package and was successfully able to scan it. You might try your device on an Express pkg and see what happens.

Unless this has happened in the last two weeks, the software in the Express PPad won't recognize a Ground bar code. I usually demonstrate to customers who want me to pick up their Ground with Express that the machine goes "beep" with Express bar codes, and no "beep" and a blinking scan light with Ground barcodes - followed sometimes by a warm boot.

Most Couriers don't realize all it will take is an update in software, and Express bar codes can be read by Ground equipment. You can bet this is already in the works, if not already done. When Ground handhelds are given the software to recognize Express barcodes, the end of the full time Courier is near.

If Fred can hold off the RLA status change, Bbsam may just get his wish and become a mini-Fred with his own fleet of Green painted trucks. He can tell his employees how much he values them and he believes in prioritizing his business outlook with a people first, service second, profit third philosophy. He can offer them yearly pay increases of about 2 percent or so and have an internal newsletter come out every quarter reminding his employees how lucky they are to work for him. He can institute an "Advance to Superior Service" program (***), where his more ambitious employees can ensure the remainder are being as productive as possible while he looks to expand his venture into foreign markets. All things are possible under the IC model with Fred at the top...
 
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MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Unless this has happened in the last two weeks, the software in the Express PPad won't recognize a Ground bar code. I usually demonstrate to customers who want me to pick up their Ground with Express that the machine goes "beep" with Express bar codes, and no "beep" and a blinking scan light with Ground barcodes - followed sometimes by a warm boot.

Most Couriers don't realize all it will take is an update in software, and Express bar codes can be read by Ground equipment. You can bet this is already in the works, if not already done. When Ground handhelds are given the software to recognize Express barcodes, the end of the full time Courier is near.

If Fred can hold off the RLA status change, Bbsam may just get his wish and become a mini-Fred with his own fleet of Green painted trucks. He can tell his employees how much he values them and he believes in prioritizing his business outlook with a people first, service second, profit third philosophy. He can offer them yearly pay increases of about 2 percent or so and have an internal newsletter come out every quarter reminding his employees how lucky they are to work for him. He can institute an "Advance to Superior Service" program (***), where his more ambitious employees can ensure the remainder are being as productive as possible while he looks to expand his venture into foreign markets. All things are possible under the IC model with Fred at the top...

This did happen within the last 2 weeks, and the individual is not a flake. Does the *** program work in conjuction with the ***(Submissive, Underhanded, and Conniving) program? I think a ****** program would be great for those brown-nosing couriers who drink the Kool-Aid daily, falsify to make management look good, and generally don't have a clue how badly they are being used.
 
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JoeVser

Active Member
I dont get it with all this kool-aid talk.If you hate Fedex so much,go quit and work for UPS.I love my job.Its the best job ive ever had.I am a part time pick-up driver.Yes I only make 36k a year and no overtime but its a perfect easy job for me.What is so illegal about a private company having a meeting that involves unionization????

It is because Fedex is non-union that I am able to work there.
When you're part time,it's the best job going.....
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Unless this has happened in the last two weeks, the software in the Express PPad won't recognize a Ground bar code. I usually demonstrate to customers who want me to pick up their Ground with Express that the machine goes "beep" with Express bar codes, and no "beep" and a blinking scan light with Ground barcodes - followed sometimes by a warm boot.

Most Couriers don't realize all it will take is an update in software, and Express bar codes can be read by Ground equipment. You can bet this is already in the works, if not already done. When Ground handhelds are given the software to recognize Express barcodes, the end of the full time Courier is near.

If Fred can hold off the RLA status change, Bbsam may just get his wish and become a mini-Fred with his own fleet of Green painted trucks. He can tell his employees how much he values them and he believes in prioritizing his business outlook with a people first, service second, profit third philosophy. He can offer them yearly pay increases of about 2 percent or so and have an internal newsletter come out every quarter reminding his employees how lucky they are to work for him. He can institute an "Advance to Superior Service" program (***), where his more ambitious employees can ensure the remainder are being as productive as possible while he looks to expand his venture into foreign markets. All things are possible under the IC model with Fred at the top...
I believe it will occur if Fred cannot hold off the status change. The real amazing thing is that two months ago people on this site thought I was completely out in left field (or right field if you think of it politically) with these theories. It almost sounds like I'm being taken seriously.:surprised: But really, I think my posts taken as a whole illustrate an IC mindset. Leaving aside the legality issues and personal opinions, i think my point of view is not so much a pro fedex stance so much as it is a bbsam stance. I see opportunities for my company to grow, and if it happens to benefit Fedex, then it is a mutually beneficial relationship. I compete with my fellow contractors, I compete with UPS and I have no qualms with competing with Express, Freight, or any other currier service or trucking company. Really, it's business and nothing personal. So if taking pride in being a somewhat successful contractor who continues to look for expansion possibilities brings the ire of others on this thread I understand. But maybe this helps others understand why many of us believe we are ICs. We see the challenge as opportunity and ICs involved in litigation as poor business owners [broad generalization] looking for a payout in a situation that was clearly laid out for them before signing the Operating Agreement. Yes, "that is exactly what Fred wants you to believe" but from our point of view there is validity. The model can and does work, but I don't believe everyone has the mindset for it. Don't get me wrong. I don't say it is a better or superior mindset, just a different one.
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
Well we used to be able to pup ground packages(at express) but they disabled the option
about a year ago.. now if they re enabled it, I'll have to check. But it used to be under
exceptions, no pkg, page down to ground, and you were able to scan.

But because ground is covered by NRLA, if express carriers started handling Ground we could "push" for the same coverage... thus the reasoning of us being forbidden to pup
Ground packages, unless "accidentally" put in drop box.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Well we used to be able to pup ground packages(at express) but they disabled the option
about a year ago.. now if they re enabled it, I'll have to check. But it used to be under
exceptions, no pkg, page down to ground, and you were able to scan.

But because ground is covered by NRLA, if express carriers started handling Ground we could "push" for the same coverage... thus the reasoning of us being forbidden to pup
Ground packages, unless "accidentally" put in drop box.


I get Ground packages all the time in drop boxes. They get taken in and the CSA perform a scan on them at the station. The boxes all state "Ground packages not accepted...". I wish we could just toss those suckers, and NOT really accept them.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Hey bbsam,

I don't fault you for trying to have a successful business, but don't Fred's ethics (or lack thereof) bother you sometimes? What you don't seem to understand is that he'll stab you someday just like he's stabbed us. Do you think Ground IC's will somehow be immune if he decides to head in a different direction? Look what happened to the DHL contractors recently when they decided to pull the plug. He's sure keeping everyone in the loop on the software changes isn't he? That's our Fred.

When you land under the bus, take notes and let us know how you like it. He prefers Blue Birds, but a Flxible or New Flyer will do in a pinch. Prevosts were too expensive.
 

Testicular Fortitude

Well-Known Member
i get ground packages all the time in drop boxes. They get taken in and the csa perform a scan on them at the station. The boxes all state "ground packages not accepted...". I wish we could just toss those suckers, and not really accept them.
i will not accept any fedex ground or fedex home pkgs from any of my customers.i politely explain to my customers that the ground and home divisions are totally different companies.they must call the 1 800 number and schedule a pick up through the ground or home division.when one of your customers complain about the inferior service provided by ground or home tell them to call the toll free number for fedex and complain,also tell your customers to tell their shippers or recipients not to use fedex ground or home.as far as drop boxes are concerned leave the pkgs in there or return them to the shipper and explain the situation to them.the other option is after 3 days in the dropbox take pkgs and give to the ground or home route in your area.stand up for yourself and do whats right to preserve our jobs.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
i will not accept any fedex ground or fedex home pkgs from any of my customers.i politely explain to my customers that the ground and home divisions are totally different companies.they must call the 1 800 number and schedule a pick up through the ground or home division.when one of your customers complain about the inferior service provided by ground or home tell them to call the toll free number for fedex and complain,also tell your customers to tell their shippers or recipients not to use fedex ground or home.as far as drop boxes are concerned leave the pkgs in there or return them to the shipper and explain the situation to them.the other option is after 3 days in the dropbox take pkgs and give to the ground or home route in your area.stand up for yourself and do whats right to preserve our jobs.

Appreciate that!
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
i will not accept any fedex ground or fedex home pkgs from any of my customers.i politely explain to my customers that the ground and home divisions are totally different companies.they must call the 1 800 number and schedule a pick up through the ground or home division.when one of your customers complain about the inferior service provided by ground or home tell them to call the toll free number for fedex and complain,also tell your customers to tell their shippers or recipients not to use fedex ground or home.as far as drop boxes are concerned leave the pkgs in there or return them to the shipper and explain the situation to them.the other option is after 3 days in the dropbox take pkgs and give to the ground or home route in your area.stand up for yourself and do whats right to preserve our jobs.


Far be it from me to tell you or anyone how to do their job, but wouldn't it simply be much easier to simply accept the pkg(s) and either bring them back to your center (station/depot/barn?) or drop them off at an authorized FedEx outlet, if available, or leave them at a business that you know has a FedEx ground pickup? Customers don't know or care whether you are Express, Ground, Freight or Home Delivery as long as their pkg gets from Point A to Point B. The time will come (sooner than you may think) when you will all be on the same team; in fact, you may be on the bench while your ground co-workers are in the starting lineup, handling work that used to be yours.

I have several drop boxes on my area and it is not uncommon to get pkgs for FedEx or the PO because people basically can't read. If it is a USPS pkg, I will simply put them in the nearest mailbox or will leave them at the MBE. If it is a FedEx pkg, I will either leave them at the MBE or will drop them off at their station, which is on the way back to our center. The look on their faces when I walk in and hand them one of their pkgs if priceless. Why penalize the customer simply because they can't read?
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Far be it from me to tell you or anyone how to do their job, but wouldn't it simply be much easier to simply accept the pkg(s) and either bring them back to your center (station/depot/barn?) or drop them off at an authorized FedEx outlet, if available, or leave them at a business that you know has a FedEx ground pickup? Customers don't know or care whether you are Express, Ground, Freight or Home Delivery as long as their pkg gets from Point A to Point B. The time will come (sooner than you may think) when you will all be on the same team; in fact, you may be on the bench while your ground co-workers are in the starting lineup, handling work that used to be yours.

I have several drop boxes on my area and it is not uncommon to get pkgs for FedEx or the PO because people basically can't read. If it is a USPS pkg, I will simply put them in the nearest mailbox or will leave them at the MBE. If it is a FedEx pkg, I will either leave them at the MBE or will drop them off at their station, which is on the way back to our center. The look on their faces when I walk in and hand them one of their pkgs if priceless. Why penalize the customer simply because they can't read?

If we accepted Ground pkgs on the road the line between employee and IC would be crossed and Smith couldn't say that Express drivers don't move Ground pkgs and vice versa. He has a vested interest in keeping them totally separate, at least for now. FedEx stations already accept Ground pkgs over the counter. A Ground driver makes a regular pickup every afternoon for the outbound. At my station, it's several pallets worth of freight every day. Customer Service agents can fully process the Ground product and have done so for several years.

This is more of the lie that Ground and Express are totally separate, which is what Smith wants everyone to believe as he fights against the RLA and to preserve the fatally flawed Ground IC model. Express freight routinely moves via Ground semis and FedEx Express facilities accept and process Ground freight each and every day. More lies and deceptions from the master of both.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Far be it from me to tell you or anyone how to do their job, but wouldn't it simply be much easier to simply accept the pkg(s) and either bring them back to your center (station/depot/barn?) or drop them off at an authorized FedEx outlet, if available, or leave them at a business that you know has a FedEx ground pickup? Customers don't know or care whether you are Express, Ground, Freight or Home Delivery as long as their pkg gets from Point A to Point B. The time will come (sooner than you may think) when you will all be on the same team; in fact, you may be on the bench while your ground co-workers are in the starting lineup, handling work that used to be yours.

I have several drop boxes on my area and it is not uncommon to get pkgs for FedEx or the PO because people basically can't read. If it is a USPS pkg, I will simply put them in the nearest mailbox or will leave them at the MBE. If it is a FedEx pkg, I will either leave them at the MBE or will drop them off at their station, which is on the way back to our center. The look on their faces when I walk in and hand them one of their pkgs if priceless. Why penalize the customer simply because they can't read?
i agree completely. when i drop packages off at the local ups station, it's part courtesy and part personal pleasure. i still know probably 70% of them by name
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Hey bbsam,

I don't fault you for trying to have a successful business, but don't Fred's ethics (or lack thereof) bother you sometimes? What you don't seem to understand is that he'll stab you someday just like he's stabbed us. Do you think Ground IC's will somehow be immune if he decides to head in a different direction? Look what happened to the DHL contractors recently when they decided to pull the plug. He's sure keeping everyone in the loop on the software changes isn't he? That's our Fred.

When you land under the bus, take notes and let us know how you like it. He prefers Blue Birds, but a Flxible or New Flyer will do in a pinch. Prevosts were too expensive.
thank-you for your concern, but no i don't concern myself with things i cannot control. i will continue to make the best of whatever situation i happen to be, so if i end up under the bus, maybe i can become a mechanic. and as for fred's ethics, no they don't bother me whatsoever. just as i did not look to the white house (bill clinton) for ethical direction, nor do i look to memphis. i've seen people all walks of life have to start over (especially in the economy lately) and i have done it myself. yes, it sucks, but it is not the end of the world.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
thank-you for your concern, but no i don't concern myself with things i cannot control. i will continue to make the best of whatever situation i happen to be, so if i end up under the bus, maybe i can become a mechanic. and as for fred's ethics, no they don't bother me whatsoever. just as i did not look to the white house (bill clinton) for ethical direction, nor do i look to memphis. i've seen people all walks of life have to start over (especially in the economy lately) and i have done it myself. yes, it sucks, but it is not the end of the world.

The old "if life gives you lemons, you'll make lemonade line"? I prefer not to have the lemons shoved up my butt, so if there's anything I can do to stop that from happening, I'm going to do it rather than just be passive about being a lemon receptacle.

Pretty soon, the next batch of lemons that come along are going to get crammed up Fred's rear end instead.There are more than a few of us that are willing to take more drastic measures as a show of our displeasure. That would include things like stopping the AM sort, taking breaks during P1, and "breaking" our vehicles, which isn't hard to accomplish.

I've also talked to some of our RTD's (feeder drivers). They aren't happy, and that's a workgroup that is capable of creating havoc very quickly since they have direct control over large quantities of freight. Imagine what would happen if a CTV has a "breakdown" with 5 cans of P1 and doesn't make the AM sort? What if 6 or 7 of these guys decide to call-in sick on the same day....how does your freight get to the station? It doesn't.This is the kind of stuff that's in the works if things don't change.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
The old "if life gives you lemons, you'll make lemonade line"? I prefer not to have the lemons shoved up my butt, so if there's anything I can do to stop that from happening, I'm going to do it rather than just be passive about being a lemon receptacle.

Pretty soon, the next batch of lemons that come along are going to get crammed up Fred's rear end instead.There are more than a few of us that are willing to take more drastic measures as a show of our displeasure. That would include things like stopping the AM sort, taking breaks during P1, and "breaking" our vehicles, which isn't hard to accomplish.

I've also talked to some of our RTD's (feeder drivers). They aren't happy, and that's a workgroup that is capable of creating havoc very quickly since they have direct control over large quantities of freight. Imagine what would happen if a CTV has a "breakdown" with 5 cans of P1 and doesn't make the AM sort? What if 6 or 7 of these guys decide to call-in sick on the same day....how does your freight get to the station? It doesn't.This is the kind of stuff that's in the works if things don't change.
and this is why i never tell you what to do or how to do it. if the lemons make your butt pucker, by all means pass the ex-lax around. and if you think such moves by hourly employees are going to get you treated better, absolutely, have at it. a few things i would say: with the volume and economy where they are, can there people afford to lose their jobs? how hard do you think you (and the rtds(theres a pun there that i will leave alone)) would be to replace. there are after all alot of dhl and truck drivers out of work.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
and this is why i never tell you what to do or how to do it. if the lemons make your butt pucker, by all means pass the ex-lax around. and if you think such moves by hourly employees are going to get you treated better, absolutely, have at it. a few things i would say: with the volume and economy where they are, can there people afford to lose their jobs? how hard do you think you (and the rtds(theres a pun there that i will leave alone)) would be to replace. there are after all alot of dhl and truck drivers out of work.


They can't fire everyone who sits down on the sort, can they? Who would deliver the pkgs. I've been at a station where this happened, and there was massive managerial panic. One person reached over and shut down the belt, and we all just sat on the bumpers of our trucks while the Ops managers ran around making threats. We had an Managing Director at the station the next day and a VP within the week. Nobody was disciplined and we got what we wanted. This was 10 years ago, when most workers still had a decent opinion of the company. FedEx is used to everything and everybody going by the rules, and when it doesn't, they're lost.

It doesn't have to be overt action anyway. There are lots of things you can do to throw a wrench in the gears, from mass sick-calls to locking the keys in your truck by "accident" at 5:15 pm. Most employees are smart enough to be able to get away with covert activities that will disrupt operations.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
They shop at WalMart because it's non-union, and they won't buy an American car because UAW workers made it. On their routes, they're usually the worst couriers, but because they ********* so well, management lets them slide. Other more competent drivers take up the slack, and when they complain, the label of "bad attitude" is immediately applied. Instead of doing their job, they talk politics with the receptionist or try to play salesperson and gin-up worthless leads...again, to kiss ass.

That type of bitter, pointless nonsense is why there's never any honest debate in this forum.

Oh well...
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
MrFedEx said:
Your comments about "free flights" have already established you as a fake. Go troll somewhere else. Part-timers are limited to 30 hrs a week and are lucky if they even get close. If you're new, and part-time, you'd be lucky to make 24k a year...another lie on your part. Keep trying...want to go for 3?

Part-timers are limited to 30 hrs/week in theory only. I'm speaking as a PT courier who is scheduled for more than 30 every week (as are my PT courier coworkers), and as someone who is offered additional hours each week on top of that.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
MrFedEx said:
Legally, FedEx is supposed to be "unbiased" and cannot use company meetings to bash the unions. That's why they are being called "information sessions" and not "anti-union meetings". They cannot say anything they want.

They most certainly can hold meetings and say whatever they want about unions... so long as the employees are properly compensated for attending.

Seriously, where do you get these odd ideas?
 
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