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<blockquote data-quote="rickyb" data-source="post: 2029033" data-attributes="member: 56035"><p>you dont even read do you?</p><p></p><p>no if people are on food stamps that means people dont have enough money to eat, and it also means there are people who havent been able to get on food stamps, and they are going hungry. i believe its 1/7 americans go hungry daily.</p><p></p><p>since you are so "free" and have an open mind, look up what ralph nader has to say on corporate crime, and price fixing. He says they are both rampant. and the government is underfunded to rectify either of them. he frequently talks about how markets actually work. including how alot of R and D in markets is done by government. Tesla, and alot of the government automakers are heavily subsidized and ran to the government for bailouts. none of the big guys actually believe in just markets. what they really believe in is profits by any means necessary. and markets are inefficient partly because they are based on imperfect information, and thats because information is complex, and also intentionally hidden quite often. the free market propagandists have distorted the words of adam smith. look up what chomsky says about markets and he will quote smith. and speaking of smith, markets turn into what happens in the matrix trilogy with smith consuming everything to the point that the environment is collapsed.</p><p></p><p>regarding being free and having a job, no i didnt. if you were a slave, but you had a job, would you be free? no.</p><p></p><p> likewise, taking orders from a capitalist in conditions that you the workers would never vote on if you could, doesnt mean your free in my books. renting your self to a capitalist is not freedom. and the fact that a huge proportion of our society is based on lies, should tell you that we are not free, and that the big lie is a sign of a totalitarian society, which the corporation is.</p><p>cooperatives is the emerging economy which is not government owned and not capitalist. the workers have a say in their workplace similar to being boards of directors.</p><p>here is a brief example:</p><p></p><p>UK Labor party's big change: less focus on state vs private enterprise, more on worker coops vs capitalist firms: <a href="https://t.co/WluZzlx373" target="_blank">http://bbc.in/1Vs2fqN</a></p><p></p><p>so if UPS was a coop, the workers might vote to fire managers they dont like, the workers might vote to not pay 1 person 1000x what the lowest paid worker makes, they might vote to have better sound systems in the car, or better maintained cars, etc. you might vote to work less hours per week to spend more time enjoying life, or vote to actually give yourself a raise higher than inflation LOL.</p><p></p><p>i think the economy should be a mix of state and private ownership. whatever works best in a particular situation.</p><p></p><p>id guess things were better for american workers in the 1960s then they are now. i can say with certainty they were better for american workers in the 1990s then now. alot of mislead people seem to think things are as good now as theyve ever been, but its not true, USA is in decline, and its hard not to see it with the great recession.</p><p></p><p>a sustainable economy would be one which doesnt cause climate change and actually brings pollutants down from where they are. capitalism is inefficient. how much do you use your private property as a % of the time? My books sit unused 99% of the time (I will be donating it to library soon), people's cars are used maybe a few hours every day, ditto for everything except maybe my computer which i use at most maybe 30% of the time. rental cars are much more efficient than individually owned cars, and public transit is more efficient than rental cars. the lunch room at my work (which is shared by all the workers) is much more efficient than my private kitchen.</p><p></p><p>and finally if i were to describe the american economy i would call it capitalist with government intervention. the economy is mix of different economies. there are cooperatives all over america right now. for example, take the family structure: its communal. the family doesnt charge itself for doing chores, or for meals, or for showers. if they operated a family like a market charging for everything, it would probably destroy some or all of the love in the family.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rickyb, post: 2029033, member: 56035"] you dont even read do you? no if people are on food stamps that means people dont have enough money to eat, and it also means there are people who havent been able to get on food stamps, and they are going hungry. i believe its 1/7 americans go hungry daily. since you are so "free" and have an open mind, look up what ralph nader has to say on corporate crime, and price fixing. He says they are both rampant. and the government is underfunded to rectify either of them. he frequently talks about how markets actually work. including how alot of R and D in markets is done by government. Tesla, and alot of the government automakers are heavily subsidized and ran to the government for bailouts. none of the big guys actually believe in just markets. what they really believe in is profits by any means necessary. and markets are inefficient partly because they are based on imperfect information, and thats because information is complex, and also intentionally hidden quite often. the free market propagandists have distorted the words of adam smith. look up what chomsky says about markets and he will quote smith. and speaking of smith, markets turn into what happens in the matrix trilogy with smith consuming everything to the point that the environment is collapsed. regarding being free and having a job, no i didnt. if you were a slave, but you had a job, would you be free? no. likewise, taking orders from a capitalist in conditions that you the workers would never vote on if you could, doesnt mean your free in my books. renting your self to a capitalist is not freedom. and the fact that a huge proportion of our society is based on lies, should tell you that we are not free, and that the big lie is a sign of a totalitarian society, which the corporation is. cooperatives is the emerging economy which is not government owned and not capitalist. the workers have a say in their workplace similar to being boards of directors. here is a brief example: UK Labor party's big change: less focus on state vs private enterprise, more on worker coops vs capitalist firms: [URL='https://t.co/WluZzlx373']http://bbc.in/1Vs2fqN[/URL] so if UPS was a coop, the workers might vote to fire managers they dont like, the workers might vote to not pay 1 person 1000x what the lowest paid worker makes, they might vote to have better sound systems in the car, or better maintained cars, etc. you might vote to work less hours per week to spend more time enjoying life, or vote to actually give yourself a raise higher than inflation LOL. i think the economy should be a mix of state and private ownership. whatever works best in a particular situation. id guess things were better for american workers in the 1960s then they are now. i can say with certainty they were better for american workers in the 1990s then now. alot of mislead people seem to think things are as good now as theyve ever been, but its not true, USA is in decline, and its hard not to see it with the great recession. a sustainable economy would be one which doesnt cause climate change and actually brings pollutants down from where they are. capitalism is inefficient. how much do you use your private property as a % of the time? My books sit unused 99% of the time (I will be donating it to library soon), people's cars are used maybe a few hours every day, ditto for everything except maybe my computer which i use at most maybe 30% of the time. rental cars are much more efficient than individually owned cars, and public transit is more efficient than rental cars. the lunch room at my work (which is shared by all the workers) is much more efficient than my private kitchen. and finally if i were to describe the american economy i would call it capitalist with government intervention. the economy is mix of different economies. there are cooperatives all over america right now. for example, take the family structure: its communal. the family doesnt charge itself for doing chores, or for meals, or for showers. if they operated a family like a market charging for everything, it would probably destroy some or all of the love in the family. [/QUOTE]
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