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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 105325" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Jones and Tie,</p><p>I think part of the problem especially with polls are the questions themselves. For example, if you asked my the following:</p><p></p><p>Does Iraq possess any WMD's? I would have to answer yes because that is a fact that they did possess WMD's. One problem arises that there is not a fast pat definition at the international law level of exactly what is WMD. The most accepted definition pertains to weapons that are of 3 classes. Nuclear, chemical, biological and yes certain weapons of the chemical/bio nature we in fact found. But let's define the question a little further to see what that answer may be.</p><p></p><p>Did Iraq possess <strong>useable, post 1991' </strong>WMD's? So far to my knowledge the answer to that question if asked of me would be No. Did Iraq possess <strong>useable</strong> WMD's? Again, to my knowledge the answer is No. </p><p></p><p>Personally I think the current adminstration is using a lawyers tactic of implied or suggestive guilt on the part of Iraq in hoping to convince the public that where's there's a little bit of smoke, there's also intent and therefore fire and the accused stands guilty. In other words, I found a marijuana seed in the car ash tray so the driver must be a transporter and dealer of large quantities of marijuana and maybe even cocaine. That's the logic here IMO. Now that could be true but the seed in the tray at best points more likely to a casual user instead. </p><p></p><p>Of the recent pre-91' weapons found you could question the efforts of the previous inspections and their effectiveness and you might even go so far as to even suggest that since these were intially missed, what else was missed and that's a very valid question. But right now we should be dealing with facts and not speculation and the facts IMO just plainly say there are no active, useable post 91' WMD's in Iraq. </p><p></p><p>In other words, we went to war on speculation not solid hardcase evidence and I believe the policy wonks who pushed this war know this and therefore are grasping as straws was the point to the delapidated, unuseable WMD's that were recently found and paraded as proof that WMD's exist. Frankly at the outset of the war I myself believed the likelihood of finding WMD was very high but here we are. </p><p></p><p>IMO, the only thing these polls proves is the effectiveness of the ad game to sell this idea and as Jones pointed out the divided political climate we live in today.</p><p></p><p>Just saw this article this morning in some Israeli news and thought I'd pass it own. It's an op-ed piece but notice the author's background at the bottom of the piece. I'm impressed. <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/wink.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wink:" title="Wink :wink:" data-shortname=":wink:" /></p><p></p><p>Ending the neoconservative nightmare - Haaretz - Israel News</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 105325, member: 2189"] Jones and Tie, I think part of the problem especially with polls are the questions themselves. For example, if you asked my the following: Does Iraq possess any WMD's? I would have to answer yes because that is a fact that they did possess WMD's. One problem arises that there is not a fast pat definition at the international law level of exactly what is WMD. The most accepted definition pertains to weapons that are of 3 classes. Nuclear, chemical, biological and yes certain weapons of the chemical/bio nature we in fact found. But let's define the question a little further to see what that answer may be. Did Iraq possess [B]useable, post 1991' [/B]WMD's? So far to my knowledge the answer to that question if asked of me would be No. Did Iraq possess [B]useable[/B] WMD's? Again, to my knowledge the answer is No. Personally I think the current adminstration is using a lawyers tactic of implied or suggestive guilt on the part of Iraq in hoping to convince the public that where's there's a little bit of smoke, there's also intent and therefore fire and the accused stands guilty. In other words, I found a marijuana seed in the car ash tray so the driver must be a transporter and dealer of large quantities of marijuana and maybe even cocaine. That's the logic here IMO. Now that could be true but the seed in the tray at best points more likely to a casual user instead. Of the recent pre-91' weapons found you could question the efforts of the previous inspections and their effectiveness and you might even go so far as to even suggest that since these were intially missed, what else was missed and that's a very valid question. But right now we should be dealing with facts and not speculation and the facts IMO just plainly say there are no active, useable post 91' WMD's in Iraq. In other words, we went to war on speculation not solid hardcase evidence and I believe the policy wonks who pushed this war know this and therefore are grasping as straws was the point to the delapidated, unuseable WMD's that were recently found and paraded as proof that WMD's exist. Frankly at the outset of the war I myself believed the likelihood of finding WMD was very high but here we are. IMO, the only thing these polls proves is the effectiveness of the ad game to sell this idea and as Jones pointed out the divided political climate we live in today. Just saw this article this morning in some Israeli news and thought I'd pass it own. It's an op-ed piece but notice the author's background at the bottom of the piece. I'm impressed. :wink: Ending the neoconservative nightmare - Haaretz - Israel News [/QUOTE]
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