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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 145914" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>First off Tie, how's peak going for you guys? Been hectic for us but except for the usual hiccups, it's been fairly smooth. 7 more days and it's that time again. Time to begin working towards Peak 07'!</p><p>OH NO!<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/w00t.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":w00t:" title="W00t :w00t:" data-shortname=":w00t:" /> </p><p> </p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group1/lol.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Lol :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> </p><p> </p><p>My point was that in 2002' Washington Post and ABC for example took a poll on a war with IRAQ and 79% favored war. Now polls then were framed with questions that skew the answers and if you move into 2003' you'll see the poll support for war quickly dropping as by this time public opposition from France and Germany had come out and on the diplomatic fronts, many were saying enough had not been done in that area. This pause caused many people to rethink and the polls reflected such but depending of the poll takers the results were different. I was reading one article where in 2003' as support was dropping that CBS did a poll showing around 60% support war with Iraq whereas at the same time Fox polled showed in the mid-70%. I don't think those numbers are any real surprise and to be honest I consider them both about as true clear a picture of the real national mood as the final vote tally on American Idol representing the actual best talent of all the contestants.</p><p> </p><p>America is down on the war and rightfully so for many, many reasons. My point, as Reiland suggested in his op-ed piece was if the war was going well, if we were as they say, cruising to easy street, the oil in Iraq was flowing freely and democracy as we saw it was so-called flowing wildly, would we then overlook all the wrong reasons for the war and just accept the success as the pure justification for the whole thing?</p><p> </p><p>Everyone loves a winner and would a majority of Americans just jump on the bandwagon for the victory parade? Reiland just barely touching human nature would suggest the American public would jump on that bandwagon and in all likelyhood have re-elected the republican Congress even in light of the massive and growing corruption that was found there. </p><p> </p><p>I wonder how we would feel about WW2 today had it gone like Iraq or Vietnam? The last 60 years are teaching us that we need to ask more and more about the need for war before we wage it. WW2 for better or worse gave Americans a false sense of trusting gov't without question, a noble but misplaced loyality and since that time gov't has proven time and time again IMO that we were led down a primrose path that ends in briars and quicksand!</p><p> </p><p>Some people scream that we were lied to and that is a valid point. However, I also find it of interest that many of these people who scream this the loudest, are politicos of the democratic side of the isle. It was their champions of rightousness who voted except for a few overwhelmingly in support of war and they have access to documents and the ability to question as great length to get to the bottom. In the end they voted for it by now the cry is, "it was a bunch of lies!" Is this cry nothing more than a plausible denial for their own shortcomings in doing their job or like the rest of us who are human, get swept up in the thought of war, conquest and the treasures of it?</p><p> </p><p>Lastly, I don't engage in many of the holiday festivities that captures the American persona these days but I'm pretty certain you and your family does and in that, I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday season!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 145914, member: 2189"] First off Tie, how's peak going for you guys? Been hectic for us but except for the usual hiccups, it's been fairly smooth. 7 more days and it's that time again. Time to begin working towards Peak 07'! OH NO!:w00t: :lol: My point was that in 2002' Washington Post and ABC for example took a poll on a war with IRAQ and 79% favored war. Now polls then were framed with questions that skew the answers and if you move into 2003' you'll see the poll support for war quickly dropping as by this time public opposition from France and Germany had come out and on the diplomatic fronts, many were saying enough had not been done in that area. This pause caused many people to rethink and the polls reflected such but depending of the poll takers the results were different. I was reading one article where in 2003' as support was dropping that CBS did a poll showing around 60% support war with Iraq whereas at the same time Fox polled showed in the mid-70%. I don't think those numbers are any real surprise and to be honest I consider them both about as true clear a picture of the real national mood as the final vote tally on American Idol representing the actual best talent of all the contestants. America is down on the war and rightfully so for many, many reasons. My point, as Reiland suggested in his op-ed piece was if the war was going well, if we were as they say, cruising to easy street, the oil in Iraq was flowing freely and democracy as we saw it was so-called flowing wildly, would we then overlook all the wrong reasons for the war and just accept the success as the pure justification for the whole thing? Everyone loves a winner and would a majority of Americans just jump on the bandwagon for the victory parade? Reiland just barely touching human nature would suggest the American public would jump on that bandwagon and in all likelyhood have re-elected the republican Congress even in light of the massive and growing corruption that was found there. I wonder how we would feel about WW2 today had it gone like Iraq or Vietnam? The last 60 years are teaching us that we need to ask more and more about the need for war before we wage it. WW2 for better or worse gave Americans a false sense of trusting gov't without question, a noble but misplaced loyality and since that time gov't has proven time and time again IMO that we were led down a primrose path that ends in briars and quicksand! Some people scream that we were lied to and that is a valid point. However, I also find it of interest that many of these people who scream this the loudest, are politicos of the democratic side of the isle. It was their champions of rightousness who voted except for a few overwhelmingly in support of war and they have access to documents and the ability to question as great length to get to the bottom. In the end they voted for it by now the cry is, "it was a bunch of lies!" Is this cry nothing more than a plausible denial for their own shortcomings in doing their job or like the rest of us who are human, get swept up in the thought of war, conquest and the treasures of it? Lastly, I don't engage in many of the holiday festivities that captures the American persona these days but I'm pretty certain you and your family does and in that, I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday season! [/QUOTE]
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