Is anyone following Wisconsin?

menotyou

bella amicizia
I find it very hypocritical for any Wisconsin politician to open their mouth about a public employee's pension until they are contributing to theirs themselves. How would you like to not be able to collective bargain? These same brilliant people negotiated these contracts. The negotiations were not one-sided. The people who voted for these yahoo's are the problem.
 

Nimnim

The Nim
I could banter on about how I see this situation; yes leaving the state while a parliamentary tactic it is also hiding from their responsibility and many see it as cowardly, but I'll go ahead and just link a blog post from Quin Hillyer in the Washington Times, that I find does a fine job stating a point of how public sector unions should not have collective bargaining.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/feb/18/fdr-vs-wisconsin-teachers/
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I admit I haven't really followed this until this morning. I am watching the Today show and this is the first story. As a homeowner and taxpayer I applaud the attempt at fiscal responsiblity but as a union member I shudder at the possible loss of our right to collectively bargain our contracts.

Whatever finally happens here will have a ripple effect throughout the rest of the country.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
I am not talking about the fact that I live in the best state in the union for pensions for public officials screwing taxpayers, as we in NY have MANY ripping off/taking advantage of the taxpayers. I think it is ridiculous that a Governor has picked on anyone for anything when he himself gets a free pension, free healthcare, free transportation, free housing, free, free, free. Give up your perks before mocking others. Is he taxing corporations who move jobs to another country? (Don't get me started on Obama)
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Its not a pretty situation, but a necessary one. The state has a massive budget shortfall that it needs to make up, and when you have pension and healthcare obligations that you cannot meet something has to give. Do you raise taxes like Illinois and risk losing jobs in your state or do you bite the bullet and reduce costs where they are the highest? Look, as a union member this doesn't make me happy to see occur, but even FDR didn't believe public service employees should belong to unions and we are seeing exactly why. Unlike private sector unions a public sector union doesn't have to worry about putting their employer out of business because their employer has the police power of government to collect and raise revenue, and better yet they have the power to help vote in or out their own bosses giving them even more leverage. The pay and benefits a lot of these workers enjoy is well beyond what a similar private sector job would be able to offer, and its the private sector that they derive the money to supply them with those benefits. We've seen government way over extend itself, and this exact situation was going to happen sooner or later, but atleast the sooner it plays out the sooner government can right itself financially so that it is not such a burden on the taxpayers of the future. Now only if the federal government would have the balls to do the same with its current entitlement programs could we start to get this country back on the right track.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Its not a pretty situation, but a necessary one. The state has a massive budget shortfall that it needs to make up, and when you have pension and healthcare obligations that you cannot meet something has to give. Do you raise taxes like Illinois and risk losing jobs in your state or do you bite the bullet and reduce costs where they are the highest? Look, as a union member this doesn't make me happy to see occur, but even FDR didn't believe public service employees should belong to unions and we are seeing exactly why. Unlike private sector unions a public sector union doesn't have to worry about putting their employer out of business because their employer has the police power of government to collect and raise revenue, and better yet they have the power to help vote in or out their own bosses giving them even more leverage. The pay and benefits a lot of these workers enjoy is well beyond what a similar private sector job would be able to offer, and its the private sector that they derive the money to supply them with those benefits. We've seen government way over extend itself, and this exact situation was going to happen sooner or later, but atleast the sooner it plays out the sooner government can right itself financially so that it is not such a burden on the taxpayers of the future. Now only if the federal government would have the balls to do the same with its current entitlement programs could we start to get this country back on the right track.
Except that Wisconsin was in the black when the new governor came into office and didn't have a deficit until he gave huge tax cuts to political allies in the state. Guess how he's trying to pay for it now? Tax cuts. The only stimulus accepted by republicans.
 

3 done 3 to go

In control of own destiny
I feel that the governor is doing the right thing. The teachers union is the biggest drain on all Nationally,State and on every tax payer. Most are making $100,00 plus. Get health care for life.(FREE). The first thing they use "Its for the kids". Bull! And work less then 200 days a year. As for DOT workers- I know I see Them working hard sleeping in the trucks. Sleeping? As I drive delivering packages. Our Union is now the weakest I've ever seen. Hoffa Needs to go. We made a sacrifice in our retirements. Why can't they. We don't get health care for life.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I feel that the governor is doing the right thing. The teachers union is the biggest drain on all Nationally,State and on every tax payer. Most are making $100,00 plus. Get health care for life.(FREE). The first thing they use "Its for the kids". Bull! And work less then 200 days a year. As for DOT workers- I know I see Them working hard sleeping in the trucks. Sleeping? As I drive delivering packages. Our Union is now the weakest I've ever seen. Hoffa Needs to go. We made a sacrifice in our retirements. Why can't they. We don't get health care for life.

$100K--false

free health care--false

DOT workers--absolutely true
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
[QUOTE=bbsam;809384]Except that Wisconsin was in the black when the new governor came into office and didn't have a deficit until he gave huge tax cuts to political allies in the state. Guess how he's trying to pay for it now? Tax cuts. The only stimulus accepted by republicans.[/QUOTE]


Anyone who thinks the Governor is right needs to read this post again!!!!
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Its not a pretty situation, but a necessary one. The state has a massive budget shortfall that it needs to make up, and when you have pension and healthcare obligations that you cannot meet something has to give. Do you raise taxes like Illinois and risk losing jobs in your state or do you bite the bullet and reduce costs where they are the highest? Look, as a union member this doesn't make me happy to see occur, but even FDR didn't believe public service employees should belong to unions and we are seeing exactly why. Unlike private sector unions a public sector union doesn't have to worry about putting their employer out of business because their employer has the police power of government to collect and raise revenue, and better yet they have the power to help vote in or out their own bosses giving them even more leverage. The pay and benefits a lot of these workers enjoy is well beyond what a similar private sector job would be able to offer, and its the private sector that they derive the money to supply them with those benefits. We've seen government way over extend itself, and this exact situation was going to happen sooner or later, but atleast the sooner it plays out the sooner government can right itself financially so that it is not such a burden on the taxpayers of the future. Now only if the federal government would have the balls to do the same with its current entitlement programs could we start to get this country back on the right track.
He thought welfare was a good thing. No foresight, there, either.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
He thought welfare was a good thing. No foresight, there, either.

Public assistance as FDR saw it was a good thing. FDR would not recognize nor condone the mess that welfare has become today.

I deliver to our local Social Services (welfare) office. It is truly disheartening to see those who truly need public assistance vastly outnumbered by those looking for free money. It used to be that the only time there were long lines was first of the month--now it is rare when I walk in and there are only a few in line.

I work so they don't have to.
 

upsr99

upsr99
Fighting for our freedom.

Feb. 17th 20,000 strong

Feb. 18th 25,000 way to go

Today anticipated 100,000 IMAG0654.jpg
IMAG0654.jpg
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
Public assistance as FDR saw it was a good thing. FDR would not recognize nor condone the mess that welfare has become today.
I agree wholeheartedly!!! Theory is lovely, but stop in Watertown and see what sludge came up with their Fort Drum relatives because NY has great welfare.
6 generations later, welfare is not working.
The states are broke because everyone banked on the economy never tanking. Anyone ever heard of ebb and flow? The situation in Wisconsin is entirely on the back of the Governor. No one else can be blamed. He is using FOX News to scare everyone into hating unions. Not good.
How can anyone here criticize anyone else for making a good wage? I am astounded at what is transpiring.
 

upsr99

upsr99
Uprising in Wisconsin

Help us Recall Governor Walker and his croonies.

Walker himself is immune until January of 2012. If just three Republicans Senators were to be replaced with Democrats, the state senate would flip to a Democratic-majority body.

The eight Republicans who can be recalled right now are:

•Robert Cowles
•Alberta Darling
•Sheila Harsdorf
•Luther Olsen
•Randy Hopper
•Glenn Grothman
•Mary Lazich
•Dan Kapanke

I will be heading up to the Capitol at this time. I will report back to you later.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Today is Sat........how fervent will the demonstration be when they aren't getting off work to do it. How many are WI. residents and how many are bussed in for effect.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
The moment the teachers started using hitler's image meant that for such learned people they are really stupid.
I for one would not want these fools any where near a classroom.
 

804brown

Well-Known Member
What I've heard is disturbing. Talking of bringing the public union pay "more in line with the private sector." Seems to me that they shoul be trying to bring the private sector "more in line with the [private] sector."

On the flipside, there's something in me that says screw Wisconsin. You elected the Republicans, you get what you get.

People voted Republican because of high unemployment and the Dems controlled Congress. They were this year's scapegoat. People didn't vote to hurt working and middle class people. These Repubs are over reading that vote in November. People need jobs and these Repub governors and some Dem governors too plan on cutting more state jobs and go after benefits and pensions and their unions?? That is insane and wrong and I hope every working person in this country wakes up to the assault we are currrently under. Email , call, text, or even write your local, state and congressional representive to stop the reactionary legislation being pushed by the corporate Repubs and Dems all over this country. If they win in Wisconsin, this will spread to other states and the private sector. Call your union officials and ask them if they are doing anything to support the public service workers in Wisconsin. This is all of our fight!
 

804brown

Well-Known Member
What the demonstrators are doing is illegal. By not being at their jobs.....state workers are striking which they can't do. If they want to demonstrate on their days off, that's different.

It was "illegal" in the 1880s for people to form unions. But that didn't stop THEM. It was "illegal" for Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement back in the 60s but that didn't stop THEM! I bet it was "illegal" for the people of Egypt and Tunisia but that didn't stop THEM!
These public service workers are standing up for what is right. You think it is illegal, GO THERE AND ARREST THEM! Do that and you will have people like me jumping on a plane to replace them in the streets! This is the beginning of something big!
 

Nimnim

The Nim
One point people are missing is that this bill was put forth in part to avoid layoffs. I think the number was up to 6000 state employees.
 

804brown

Well-Known Member
I could banter on about how I see this situation; yes leaving the state while a parliamentary tactic it is also hiding from their responsibility and many see it as cowardly, but I'll go ahead and just link a blog post from Quin Hillyer in the Washington Times, that I find does a fine job stating a point of how public sector unions should not have collective bargaining.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2011/feb/18/fdr-vs-wisconsin-teachers/

Washington Times?? LOL!! Aka the Moony Times. You do know that "news"paper is owned by the Rev sun yun moon. LOL!
 
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