Cactus
Just telling it like it is
Same goes for Hoffa Jr. too. He stands there at the sidelines eating popcorn.
Is Ground really getting E2 and XS?
- Thread starter jack584
- Start date
Same goes for Hoffa Jr. too. He stands there at the sidelines eating popcorn.
Since you aren't privy to corporate sales meetings or to sales meetings with large accounts then you are only going on what you have personally experienced. FedEx seems very excited about the higher profits Ground produces per pkg. They'd be crazy not to promote Ground before other services. It pretty much sells itself.
I know. Fedex is going to provide any shipper a service of their choice. No duh Ground is cheaper than Express. Always has, always will, every carrier. They do not promote in general ground ahead of express, they however aren't stupid, if the job/customer needs ground over express, that is where they will go. Like a medical company needing express over ground. That is my point, sales knows the services and will help, but the shipper is giving their needs. Ground in general has more need than express. UPS has known this forever. Express was built on speed but at a price.
Example: A large customer has recently moved a ton of volume from Ground to Smart Post, solely because of price as the delivery times still fit their needs. So one can say there is a conspiracy against Ground delivery people as Fedex wants customers to use Smart Post instead. The thing is the service is satisfactory enough and it is driven by the shipper to want to save the extra buck or two, so Fedex abides, its one of their services for shippers to pick. There is no conspiracy, your shippers are dictating what they want to do and a lot of it is based around $$$, surprise.
Do not dismiss Regionals. Shippers are also making UPS/Fedex act like regionals. In cost competitiveness and with all their regional hubs. Overnight Ground to 90% of the population in the US exists. Companies with many warehouses are doing this. Some are even dabbling in Same Day Ground, something Express cannot do. It's a new world. Change sucks....
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You keeping talking conspiracies. I'm talking about the obvious that Ground is more profitable than Express(don't know why you brought up Ground is cheaper, duh). Tell me something, if you were a veteran Express courier, and saw over and over again for years the company taking away various benefits while racking up good profits, especially terminating the traditional pension, wouldn't you be skeptical of anything said to you by them? You really don't know what it's been like so stop with the patronizing. The idea that FedEx wouldn't emphasize Ground's ability to get it there for less to customers is pretty far-fetched. Everything they do is to maximize profit so to say that they just present a menu of options to a customer and hope he picks the one that will make them the most money is silly. They can't make customers pick Ground, but come on, in their presentation they are emphasizing that Ground can get it done for less. And everything FedEx has been doing since they first put Ground on the road is to get to the point where they can start raking in the profits in a big way that'll make Wall Street happy.
The shipper doesn't care which service is most profitable to Fedex. They look at them as services and how it fits them. They will take the best price that gets the job done. That is the argument that some here think Fedex is pushing Sales to push ground on customers, if this argument is not yours then do worry about it. I am telling anyone reading here though that we are using ground when it makes sense and more and more it does because of advanced logistics, I can get more packages today to more customers in a single day, which was only at one time possible with Express shipping. Stop patronizing me as a shipper, I know what I and many other shippers paying all your bills want and how it's being presented to us by your sales team. It is my choice, they deliver me rates and follow up loose ends.
Stop with the "my company is selling out Express" your company is selling each and every service the offer. What we choose is what the trend is.
I do separate this from things like pensions, working conditions, which I know can be upsetting, but not at all part of my point. You can be mad, but just being mad doesn't make all theories correct. The cold reality is people more and more are choosing economical ground vs expensive air.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Why do you care what we think anyway? What does it matter to you that our morale is at an all time low if you benefit from Ground's cheap labor costs? There is no conspiracy theory, it's just their way of doing business. Shady is one word to describe it. You just have a hard time accepting the fact that the way this company treats its workers is immoral and unethical. You can try to justify their way of business all you want but it's not going to change the minds of thousands of employees that think the opposite.
Why does anything happen? Why do you care what I think? These things should have to be asked on a forum, it is a place people come to talk various things.
But some want to believe "Sales is doing this or that" all based on company rumors and conjecture. Well I can help you, by being a customer allowing you to mesh up your rumors as plausible or not. I am helping deny or confirm your rumors, don't feel offended but enlightened with the things I can confirm for you. Am I almighty and always correct? No, but also don't blow me off as one without any insight, some of the things you guys start talking about is in my wheel-house.
For example there were rumors around here of Express Saver going away, well around that same time your own Sales team comes out to tell us about an new Coast To Coast pricing plan to compete with Ground (Fedex and UPS) where a ratio of time and dollars can be maximized. So where ground could take 4-5-6 days delivery, Saver would come in at 3 days for a few bucks more, seems like a smart offering. At the same time your sale person tells me, they are needing more Express business, my guess to fill planes. They did not come in to sell ground, but offer an Express alternative, just a couple months ago... So who was right "Internet Rumor" or what I experienced and shared? A: You know.
My remarks here have nothing to do with how your company is treating you. I want you guys to make as much as possible, I hate what W.S. has done to us all, I'm pro union, they set the market. I am pro worker etc. Several here are meshing too many thoughts into my point. I can't say it any clearer than I have. I wasn't talking about your personal issues, but when someone says "Fedex Sales is being pushed to offer ground over express", I'm responding to you and saying this isn't happening as a norm by any stretch. We the shipper are choosing the service. I'm sorry this has been confused by others. I've been clear to my point from the start.
I didn't say that the shipper cares about our profits, I said FedEx wants to emphasize to customers how Ground has progressed in hopes that they will go with Ground because it's more profitable to FedEx if they do. And I'm not saying that "my company is selling out Express" because it's the right of the company to pursue profits. Just don't lie to us and manipulate us. You don't know what's going on over here and you are basing your beliefs about FedEx on a false premise. And we are aware that in this economy people are looking for savings wherever they can find them. But FedEx hasn't just pulled Ground out of a hat, they've been working toward this end for a long time, and sold out their employees, especially their mid-range employees, to get the money together to make it happen. Do you think they'll share some of that projected $3.8 Billion in annual profits with their Express employees? If it goes anywhere it'll be to Ground drivers to keep them happy. The only reason we in mid-range matter is to keep at it to keep the profits rolling in while they expand their empire. And my argument hasn't been to tell you what shippers want, my argument is that FedEx is emphasizing to shippers that Ground can do most of what Express can do for less. If it works for them why would they pay Express rates? That's not selling us out, lying to us about having the future we want if we stick with FedEx is selling us out.
I do know and some of you are playing the role of victims and not wanting to hear what I have to say, because you don't like it. Well that isn't how anything works in big-boy world. The other stuff about your internals, while interesting reading was not what I am alluding to. Yeah your company built up ground and was smart for doing so, that's just good business seeing trends. The parts about your happiness, I'm sorry but I cannot help you.
Goldilocks
Well-Known Member
No what we're putting on our big boy pants to resist is this notion that you know anything about what sales is doing beyond your immediate experience. You are the one claiming inside knowledge, you are the one who keeps bringing up conspiracies, and frankly you're the one who patronizingly tells us how the real world works as if we're naive simpletons. We are just couriers after all.
We have no control over the direction the company takes. And it's no conspiracy to say that Fred S made sure of that with his "influence" in Congress. When there was a real threat to get a union in the '90's they came up with some serious adjustments in pay. By virtually eliminating the chance for a union now they've demonstrated their true feelings on paying decent wages and providing decent benefits. You, the shipper, may not care, but we who've worked hard for so long do care. And it's no conspiracy that now that they've got what they want nearly in place they are downsizing Express. That's not theory, they are saying they are going to reduce our workforce through attrition. They've closed stations. EVERYTHING points to an emphasis on Ground. Again, more power to them, but don't string me along for years, telling me I'll top out in 7 to 8 years when they had no intention to, telling me every year in the mail where my pension stands and what I will get if I stick with them. No skin off your back but this is what I was working towards. And about all I have to show for it is crappy insurance and a downsized retirement. You may not care but how can we not care? You don't want to acknowledge a corporate emphasis on Ground more power to you. They sold us out to take the company in that direction, and act like we should feel lucky that they gave us a job.
Nope I don't agree. I'm letting you know your sales teams are selling whatever the customer is buying. Others here are the one's dreaming up the ________ Surprise!
That's all.
Not sure what there is to argue. I'm done with this circular discussion for now.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
And what king tut also fails to realize is that without express there would be no ground. Express built this company up on the backs of its hard working express employees. Without express Fred would not have had the capital to start ground. Now our future with this company is being snatched from underneath us. And king tut wants us to believe this is not the plan . Who's foolin who?
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Did you understand when I said Fred would never had the capital to " start " ground without the hardwork and dedication from Express. Wether you want to admit it or not. That is fact. We built this company and its image. Not ground. People to this still day don't know the difference between express and ground. I can't tell you how many customers I've come across think everything is flown and due by 10:30. You think ground built that image. Keep foolin yourself bro.
When FedEx reports profits it's for the entire corporation. Sure they can break it down as to where it came from, but profits are for the entire corporation, just as company stock represents ownership in the entire corporation. It's a chicken/egg argument. Even if you could prove only profits from Ground operations went into building up infrastructure they still took as much as they could from Express employees to pump up profits to keep Wall Street interested in buying stock. They didn't want the stock back under $30 a share again. And certainly early on and for some time Ground by itself wasn't generating enough profit to build those facilities.
And here we are back at the point where my understanding the plight of the Express driver separates me almost from giving a damn. You may have crappy insurance and a piss poor retirement, but we've done without either for years in this company. Hell, one could say for the past 5years your benefits have been on the backs of the Ground network that you hold such disdain for. What Express built was a name. What Ground built is a network able to compete for, get, hold, and profit from UPS' "bread and butter". Your welcome.
I don't hold them in disdain. My beef is with the company, who is doing what they are to both Express and Ground personnel. But I'm not shedding tears for you either. You're benefitting very handsomely off the efforts of your drivers.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
A Fred Jr. in the making.
