Is it normal for PT Sups to take away minutes from your work?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by B-Daz, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. BryantheLion

    BryantheLion I leef deengs up n boot dem down

    This has happened to my brother before, and now its happening to me. I'm not sure its something they do until you finally realize it and address them. I ALWAYS work at least 4 hours a day as a loader, though when my check arrives, the hours listed are sometimes from 17.00 to 18.28. Just recently, I came in around 5:40pm (I work the twilight shift) and I was suppose to come in at 6pm. I understand that I came early, but while 6pm was the time when work started, he wrote me down coming in at 6:15pm. Not only that, but I usually get off at around 10:30pm, and the time he writes me down for leaving is 21:50 (9:50pm).

    Do they benefit from the minutes taken away from our work, if not, why do they do it? I'm assuming they do it to the new hires (Only been there for about 2 months), but recently 2 new hires came in and have been dealing with the same problem. Im usually the last loader to leave from my PD, and while there are small bags, small packages finishing up the shift..he tells me to scan on each door from 220-227 and get them all in the load. After that, he tells me to bring the scanners to the scanner room, then I'm dismissed.

    I havent complained yet, because for some reason I thought to myself "God will punish him for doing someone wrong", but now its just pissing me off. Also, last Wednesday - Friday, I have had another PT Sup replacing the one that takes away minutes. I'm not sure if the Sup I used to have is getting promoted or something..he always arrives in the last 30 minutes of work.
  2. Short answer? yes we do benefit from it.....but only until caught (when we're fired or disciplined). I've honestly never done it. I don't know any PT supes on my shift that have, FT is another story but anyway. First, I would talk to him/her about it. If they know you know its happening sometimes it magically just disappears (the problem) however if thats not going to work (and you may want to anyways as it sounds like you're owed money) get with your steward and file a grievance.

    If I need to cut down on minutes I do it the right way...change the start time, not altering an employee's timcard. Theres also credibility/liability issues. If he clocks you out and you get hurt during that're screwed I think because technically you weren't on the clock (due to him punching you out). Get with him and/or your steward immediately and get this straigtened out.
  3. seawalocal174

    seawalocal174 New Member

    Thats some shady :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: right there. File immediately, you dont work for free
  4. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    Is he physically changing your card, or just when its keyed? Ive made mistakes when keying in timecards, since its the last thing i have to do of the day and im getting timecards up until i have to leave, but i always double check them on saturday to see if anything looks funny
  5. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Didn't you ever hear the one about God helping those who help themselves?

    Your pt supe has stolen from you. Assuming you clock in and out by swiping a card, you can prove it, because that is stored. So is every change he's made to your HTM record. In fact the National Master contract reads as follows:

    "Article 12

    Polygraph / Timeclocks​

    ...Upon request, an employee or the Union may inspect the record of an employee's time recorded on the
    DIAD or other device for previous days' work. An employee will be permitted to examine the operation
    record for the current pay period for the purpose of ascertaining his/her hours worked. If an employee
    has an issue with his/her hours worked for a particular day, the Employer will provide the
    employee, upon written request, with a print out of his/her hours worked.​

    The Employer shall not alter the information from the DIAD board, or information recorded
    through the use of any other technology, so as to diminish an employee’s compensable time,
    without the employee’s knowledge. Further, the Employer shall post for an employee’s review, a
    copy of the PTE edits for each day. No supervisor shall use a DIAD, or any other information
    recorded through the use of any other technology, under the name of an hourly employee unless
    the employee is present. This includes for the purpose of training and demonstration."​

    I'm not sure how long this has been going on, but you don't have to worry about the timliness standards in the grievance procedure. The only relevant statute of limitations is that in the Wage and Hour statutes in your state. Do us all a favor and make sure UPS fires this guy, pour encourager les autres. And you can do well by doing good, because you'll get paid for every minute lost back to day one. Also look into the wage and hour statutes to see if you are due any penalties.​
  6. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    This is all well and good, but is this guy/gal coming in at 05:40 when start time is 06:00 and working early without permission? Is this person working PAST end time without permission? I don't know. If so, the company won't pay WILLINGLY. If you DID perform the work, then you SHOULD get paid for it, but get permission first next time.

    As for your pay period starting 15 min PAST start time (posted, right?), that is pay also.

    I know I'm missing many things here but that is it in a nutshell. ANDDDDDD......

    Document everything you do at all times.
  7. BryantheLion

    BryantheLion I leef deengs up n boot dem down

    Thanks for the helpful answers. What Im going to do it write the exact time it says after I clock out for 1-2 weeks (Yes, by swiping a card). If my time does not match up with the time it says I worked, I will address my supervisor first, if he declines to do anything about it, I will then address someone with higher power until I'm getting the time I work for.

    And to drewed, aside from us scanning in (Us as in the loaders) he seperately has his own paper writing down the times we come in and the times we leave. Although as I said in my first post, I've been having a different Sup for the last 3 days (Last Wed - Friday), and he's been doing his job, writing everybody down on time, actually helps out in the PD, and hes a really cool guy. (My current PT Sup does NOTHING and is extremely lazy), I hope he replaces my Sup.
  8. BryantheLion

    BryantheLion I leef deengs up n boot dem down

    If you're talking about me, I NEVER scan until I actually start work. Whether it is to set up the rollers in different doors, dump stuff off from the slide to the belts, etc. Even if I arrive 10 minutes early to work, as soon as he tells me to do something..that is when I clock in.
  9. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Obviously, you need to write down when you clock in and out as well as the time differential that shows when you do the latter. And if you see your pt supe "helping out" before you are on the clock, don't wait to be asked -- clock in and tell him that you are available to do bargaining unit work, so he shouldn't. They ARE posting your start times? Locutions like "15 minutes after hub start" are NOT ok, btw.
  10. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    By addressing the supervisor, you are opening a can of worms that is unnecessary.
    If the supervisor is stealing time worked from you, immediately report this as unethical business practice. There is a 1-800 number to call, I don't know it offhand. Don't try to be "fair and honest" with any supervisor that doesn't give you that respect! If they are stealing from YOU trying to survive and make a living, do not be the nice guy here. The power is in your hands.
  11. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    The 1-800 number is a crock. I've filed a couple code of business practice complaints, and you get a number to call back to the outside service with, and eventually when you do you are told the concern has been addressed, no details and nothing on paper either way. Oh, you may also get a sit down with your district HR/Compliance suit. Sometimes a useful attention-getting device, but basically a waste of time if you've got better tools. In this case, no; demand the list of edits to your time record, demand to be made whole, and demand UPS fire the thieving SOB who stole time from you. Use the grievance form, and get it clocked in at the local right off. The time to put management on notice that you are not to be messed with is now, and as often again as necessary to keep the lesson fresh. It took me a couple years to find that out, but there's no reason you have to learn from your own experience.
  12. brownrodster

    brownrodster New Member

    Sounds like you are reporting to work early (clocking in) and working off the clock before your designated start time. In order to get paid for this they have to change your start time. You need to tell someone that day to change your start time to the time you actually start working.

    When you report to work (clock in) you don't get paid until your actual designated start time. You are not supposed to perform any work before your designated start time. They could actually probably turn this back on you for working off the clock without (?) approval. Sorry, I don't know the details. Start working at your designated start time. Don't work for free.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  13. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member


    No, not really. Maybe the supe thought 21 is 10pm in military time, and thought :50 was .50 and forgot to change the start time in HTM from 18:15 to 18:00 when he posted a 6pm start time. Yeah, maybe the moon is made of green cheese, too.
  14. imunknown2u

    imunknown2u New Member

    You're best bet is to record your time and then when you arrive, on time of course, find the supervisor that does the time cards and say "Hey look! I'm here! It's ??? O'clock and I am here"
  15. BURMDPsupe

    BURMDPsupe Member

    Make sure you don't have a "staggered start time." Some staggered start times can be as much as 15 minutes after the start of the shift.

    That said, shaving time to meet one's pph is grounds for termination. I sure hope your supervisors are aware of this, I've witnessed my own (former) manager being escorted out of the building due to "shaving time."

  16. Ssully88

    Ssully88 New Member

    Get a note pad and write down the times you punch in and out. If it says any different on your O.R. address it with the sup. If not is done then grieve it also you and the guys in your work area should be punching yourselfs in and out by law your suppose to do that. Good luck brother:peaceful:
  17. thebrownbox

    thebrownbox New Member

    Yes.. but we just had a big issue last week when PT supes were talking time away from PT preloaders.. shop steward had a huge fit.. they pretty much jammed as much as they could down the belts (lots of bent, crushed, open boxes) and after we had mounds of boxes and had time to START loading we were asking to hurry up... so in a nutshell like 4 weeks ago we would end st like 8:40AM now we were hitting like 8:20AM it was just getting nuts.
  18. sortaisle

    sortaisle Livin the cardboard dream

    demand a green check for your stolen hours. Once the hours lost are approved, they have something like 2 days to issue the check. After that you start earning an interest of sorts for every day that you don't receive the check.
  19. thebrownbox

    thebrownbox New Member

    Yes.. but we just had a big issue last week when PT supes were talking time away from PT preloaders.. shop steward had a huge fit.. they pretty much jammed as much as they could down the belts (lots of bent, crushed, open boxes) and after we had mounds of boxes and had time to START loading we were asking to hurry up... so in a nutshell like 4 weeks ago we would end st like 8:40AM now we were hitting like 8:20AM it was just getting nuts.
  20. Highwayman

    Highwayman Member

    I have worked here for over 20 years and I still keep track of my hours. Thats every day every week for 20 years. Do not trust them to do the right thing. Verify it!:angry: