Is telematics over supervison?

[thelus]

In 705 we don't have GPS language and i'm sure telematics has not be bargained with the union. So i'm wondering why no one in 705 has filed a article 37 grievance on telematics.

"The parties agree that the principle of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay shall be observed at all times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest. The Employer shall not in any way intimidate, harass, coerce or overly supervise any employee in the performance of his or her duties."

How is it that a supervisor can watch every action you do, then turn around and intimidate you with that data not a violation of article 37?

 

[talkwith]

Our union book has language that prevents UPS from using new technology for discipline purposes.

 

[cachsux]

We had a driver who was walked out for stealing time. Not a two hour lunch mind you but it was "you took too long to acknowledge this move" " you took too long to go down the hall (bathroom)". They said they had three DVDs of video on him all from cameras that are not supposed to be submittable in this manner.

 

[tieguy]

In 705 we don't have GPS language and i'm sure telematics has not be bargained with the union. So i'm wondering why no one in 705 has filed a article 37 grievance on telematics.

"The parties agree that the principle of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay shall be observed at all times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest. The Employer shall not in any way intimidate, harass, coerce or overly supervise any employee in the performance of his or her duties."

How is it that a supervisor can watch every action you do, then turn around and intimidate you with that data not a violation of article 37?

one could make the argument that if you do your job you then you have nothing to worry about. whats the difference between telematics and a supervisor standing over top those who work inside operations?

 

[705red]

In 705 we don't have GPS language and i'm sure telematics has not be bargained with the union. So i'm wondering why no one in 705 has filed a article 37 grievance on telematics.

"The parties agree that the principle of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay shall be observed at all times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest. The Employer shall not in any way intimidate, harass, coerce or overly supervise any employee in the performance of his or her duties."

?

All you have to say is you dont remember when guestioned. DO NOT attempt to explian whay this or why that, once you say something that incriminates yourself, they can discipline you for what you say, not from Telematics.

How is it that a supervisor can watch every action you do, then turn around and intimidate you with that data not a violation of article 37

 

[thelus]

one could make the argument that if you do your job you then you have nothing to worry about. whats the difference between telematics and a supervisor standing over top those who work inside operations?

apparently you can file article 37 on the sup standing over your shoulders, but not on the telematics. They both yell at you to go faster when you are doing the job perfectly. Its these virtual times tudys that say I'm supposed to be doing a route in 3 hours instead of 4. in reality if they actually did a time study they would know why. I'm an air driver not a package driver, there is a big difference in the jobs. (also pay)

 

[JonFrum]

one could make the argument that if you do your job you then you have nothing to worry about. whats the difference between telematics and a supervisor standing over top those who work inside operations?

Every day, people who mind their own business are the victims of all sorts of crimes. That's because bad people are out there and they will seek you out. You don't have to provoke them. They'll come after you. Predators actually prefer victims who are inoffensive, non-agressive, and just minding their own business. It is naive to think, for example, that women and girls would not be raped if only they would just quietly do their jobs, mind their own business, and refrain from rapeing men.
- - - -
Unlike using Telematics reports on drivers, over supervision of an inside employee . . .

1.Usually has one or more witnesses, while a driver is alone out on a limb.

2. Involves supervisor comments in real time, which can be answered back as they are made.

3. Is done moment to moment when the employee's memory of events is fresh.

4. Alows the employee to defend himself by pointing to the undeniable circumstances that are causing the problem (jams, heavy flow, labels down, bad equiptment, safety issue, supervisor in the way, etc.)

5. Employee is aware he is being watched for purposes of evaluation and correction and can make a point of remembering circumstances, enlisting witnesses, and mentally preparing his defense.

6. Issues can be handled one by one, as they come up, as opposed to a driver who, at the end of a long day, is brought into the office and hit with an entire day's worth of details all at once, ambush style. Or brought into the office the following day after the memory of the previous day's details have faded.

7. An inside employee can advise an obviously concerned supervisor of difficulties in real time and put the burden on the supervisor to correct the problems or decide how to handle them. Any adverse consequences now being the responsibility of the supervisor as it was his decisions. The employee is just a work-as-directed drone.

 

[deleted9]

All you have to say is you dont remember when guestioned. DO NOT attempt to explian whay this or why that, once you say something that incriminates yourself, they can discipline you for what you say, not from Telematics.

How is it that a supervisor can watch every action you do, then turn around and intimidate you with that data not a violation of article 37

Bad advice, you are telling people to flat out LIE when questioned............

 

[deleted9]

Every day, people who mind their own business are the victims of all sorts of crimes. That's because bad people are out there and they will seek you out. You don't have to provoke them. They'll come after you. Predators actually prefer victims who are inoffensive, non-agressive, and just minding their own business. It is naive to think, for example, that women and girls would not be raped if only they would just quietly do their jobs, mind their own business, and refrain from rapeing men.
- - - -


What are you talking about?????

 

[SWORDFISH]

Bad advice, you are telling people to flat out LIE when questioned............

SUPERVISOR ALERT!!!!!!!!!
"Oh I cant remember"

 

[SWORDFISH]

We had a driver who was walked out for stealing time. Not a two hour lunch mind you but it was "you took too long to acknowledge this move" " you took too long to go down the hall (bathroom)". They said they had three DVDs of video on him all from cameras that are not supposed to be submittable in this manner.

There must be alot of details to this story we dont know. I would be curious to know. He will be back unless theirs something very bad we dont know.

 

[deleted9]

SUPERVISOR ALERT!!!!!!!!!
"Oh I cant remember"

Sounds like you are one of those people with selective memory loss.......

 

[deleted9]

SUPERVISOR ALERT!!!!!!!!!
"Oh I cant remember"

Believe me, most of the times i knew the answer to the question before i asked it.

 

[705red]

Bad advice, you are telling people to flat out LIE when questioned............

Believe me, most of the times i knew the answer to the question before i asked it.

My contract says that you cannot use technology to discipline me, yet you want to hold an interview solely bases on information you received off of telematics. Your whole intention is an attempt to have the employee convict themselves when you have no valid proof of what you are accusing them. Your violating the contract and my member is taking the 5th by not remembering, and he/she will still continue to work at this company, until you decide to do your job and observe your alleged charges.

By me saying dont respond or dont go into detail is not lieing. You sand bagging an employee by using reports that carry no weight is more dishonest in my eyes.

When I say you obviously I dont mean you, because you dont work here anymore.

 

[upssup]

I would think that the opposite is true. They would know that you are doing your job as directed. If they have you on GPS then they can tell you are correctly following your route and stopping where you are supposed to. Now if you do it with your bulkhead door open or your seatbelt off, then I could understand the discipline. We are already plugging in some of our cars and from an Auto perspective it is working well to detect problems with the cars.

 

[705red]

I would think that the opposite is true. They would know that you are doing your job as directed. If they have you on GPS then they can tell you are correctly following your route and stopping where you are supposed to. Now if you do it with your bulkhead door open or your seatbelt off, then I could understand the discipline. We are already plugging in some of our cars and from an Auto perspective it is working well to detect problems with the cars.

Are you talking about from Telematics or from observing the employee? I have no problem with sups hiding in bushes watching me and I do not feel that is harassment. However using data from technology is not only a contract violation I have also seen faulty info used from this same technology.

 

[upssup]

Would GPS not show exactly where you are, and when you are there? I would think that would be better for the driver than a supervisor hiding in the bushes.

 

[Dragon]

My contract says that you cannot use technology to discipline me, yet you want to hold an interview solely bases on information you received off of telematics. Your whole intention is an attempt to have the employee convict themselves when you have no valid proof of what you are accusing them. Your violating the contract and my member is taking the 5th by not remembering, and he/she will still continue to work at this company, until you decide to do your job and observe your alleged charges.

By me saying dont respond or dont go into detail is not lieing. You sand bagging an employee by using reports that carry no weight is more dishonest in my eyes.

When I say you obviously I dont mean you, because you dont work here anymore.

Thats ok Red, when we sit at the local level hearing and grievence panel. When they ask the question:

Well did anybody ever talk to you about this (violation) and give you a chance to correct your behavior?

Driver's answer: my shop steward said not to say anything when they brought me in the office.....

I think you get my meaning RED. I may not be able to fire you based solely on telematics (based on your contract) but it sure as hell does not say I cannot talk to you about it.

 

[705red]

Would GPS not show exactly where you are, and when you are there? I would think that would be better for the driver than a supervisor hiding in the bushes.

It is better for teh driver, because it cant be used.

Thats ok Red, when we sit at the local level hearing and grievence panel. When they ask the question:

Well did anybody ever talk to you about this (violation) and give you a chance to correct your behavior?

Driver's answer: my shop steward said not to say anything when they brought me in the office.....

I think you get my meaning RED. I may not be able to fire you based solely on telematics (based on your contract) but it sure as hell does not say I cannot talk to you about it.

What violation would you be refering to? If the driver does not answer its not progressive discipline, because he admitted nothing.

 

[Dragon]

It is better for teh driver, because it cant be used.



What violation would you be refering to? If the driver does not answer its not progressive discipline, because he admitted nothing.

Not wearing seat belt - bulk head door - backing or what ever topic the center manager is talking about.

RED we (or at least most us) just do not bring a driver in the office and fire them over a first time incident.

I like to talk to my people first and give them a chance to correct something on thier own before I even do the "documented talk with". Make no mistake this is begining of your re-training and I document it for my records, so when I get asked that same question (because they will ask me) I have the answer for them. This gives me creditability at local level hearings and at the panel.

RED all I am trying to say is that the reports give me a reason to ask questions so I can manage my operation even if I am not standing right there. Most of the time drivers are given benefit of the doubt after a reasonable explanation and off they go.