Is telematics over supervison?

[deleted9]

My contract says that you cannot use technology to discipline me, yet you want to hold an interview solely bases on information you received off of telematics. Your whole intention is an attempt to have the employee convict themselves when you have no valid proof of what you are accusing them. Your violating the contract and my member is taking the 5th by not remembering, and he/she will still continue to work at this company, until you decide to do your job and observe your alleged charges.

By me saying dont respond or dont go into detail is not lieing. You sand bagging an employee by using reports that carry no weight is more dishonest in my eyes.

When I say you obviously I dont mean you, because you dont work here anymore.

management has every right to question any employee while they are on the clock, and all employees are expected to respond truthfully the only right they have is to have a steward present if they want and if they are going to be disciplined

 

[705red]

management has every right to question any employee while they are on the clock, and all employees are expected to respond truthfully the only right they have is to have a steward present if they want and if they are going to be disciplined

Question them about what? It does not give you the right to ask them a variety of questions. When we go in the office you will tell us what it is about, and than if need be I will ask for a few minutes and walk the grievant out of your office and return when we are done discussing what you inquired about. If the driver has no idea what you are talking about, he will say he does not remember on your clock.


You can ask whatever you want, and I could just as easy say that your question has no merit, is leading, etc and thats it. Maybe where you worked the union allowed you to bully employees but here we dont play those games.

 

[705red]

Not wearing seat belt - bulk head door - backing or what ever topic the center manager is talking about.

RED we (or at least most us) just do not bring a driver in the office and fire them over a first time incident.

I like to talk to my people first and give them a chance to correct something on thier own before I even do the "documented talk with". Make no mistake this is begining of your re-training and I document it for my records, so when I get asked that same question (because they will ask me) I have the answer for them. This gives me creditability at local level hearings and at the panel.

RED all I am trying to say is that the reports give me a reason to ask questions so I can manage my operation even if I am not standing right there. Most of the time drivers are given benefit of the doubt after a reasonable explanation and off they go.

I would have to agree, it does depend on teh manager holding the meeting. Some I have nothing but respect for and some I have no respect for. I have seen manageent discipline 4 drivers each different for the same infraction. It all boils down to credibility.

 

[deleted9]

It is better for teh driver, because it cant be used.



What violation would you be refering to? If the driver does not answer its not progressive discipline, because he admitted nothing.

since i know i do not know everything enlighten me . i thought there was language in the master agreement regarding the use and validaty of technology in accountability

 

[deleted9]

My contract says that you cannot use technology to discipline me, yet you want to hold an interview solely bases on information you received off of telematics. Your whole intention is an attempt to have the employee convict themselves when you have no valid proof of what you are accusing them. Your violating the contract and my member is taking the 5th by not remembering, and he/she will still continue to work at this company, until you decide to do your job and observe your alleged charges.

By me saying dont respond or dont go into detail is not lieing. You sand bagging an employee by using reports that carry no weight is more dishonest in my eyes.

When I say you obviously I dont mean you, because you dont work here anymore.

looks like you are coming dangerously close if not crossing the line of you directing the work force and we all know what can happen to a steward if they do that and that is clear in the contract

 

[SWORDFISH]

My contract says that you cannot use technology to discipline me, yet you want to hold an interview solely bases on information you received off of telematics. Your whole intention is an attempt to have the employee convict themselves when you have no valid proof of what you are accusing them. Your violating the contract and my member is taking the 5th by not remembering, and he/she will still continue to work at this company, until you decide to do your job and observe your alleged charges.

By me saying dont respond or dont go into detail is not lieing. You sand bagging an employee by using reports that carry no weight is more dishonest in my eyes.

When I say you obviously I dont mean you, because you dont work here anymore.

+1 Well said. Its really like an interigation. I have seen it so many times.

 

[SWORDFISH]

management has every right to question any employee while they are on the clock, and all employees are expected to respond truthfully the only right they have is to have a steward present if they want and if they are going to be disciplined

(2units)PFFFFFFFFFF............. LOL. Sounds like my center manager. Your probably treat your people like dirt.




Dragon, from your comments Im assuming that you create a better center environment than most of us our used to. I would respond differently in less hostile environments.



I believe the technology langauge is based on proven dishonesty.

 

[705red]

since i know i do not know everything enlighten me . i thought there was language in the master agreement regarding the use and validaty of technology in accountability

705 is not part of the master agreement. We still have language that does not allow discipline from the use of technology. Comsider your self enlighntened.

 

[705red]

looks like you are coming dangerously close if not crossing the line of you directing the work force and we all know what can happen to a steward if they do that and that is clear in the contract

What are you talking about? Maybe you could enlignten me a little? In no way what I am doing is causing a work stoppage, which I think is what you are referring to. Maybe you should read up on the rules by visiting the NLRB website.

 

[satellitedriver]

looks like you are coming dangerously close if not crossing the line of you directing the work force and we all know what can happen to a steward if they do that and that is clear in the contract

Bubba,
I am a scab and you just crossed over my line.
If you haven't noticed, or been told, the union and the company work on a legal contractual basis.
-(and just who the hell is "We" in your sentence ?)-
When you stated;
we all know what can happen to a steward,
you are the one with their toes off the cliff and their heels on banana peels.
Maybe, you should learn the legal function of a steward and the ramifications of threatening one even by innuendo.
You talk as if you know the contract, by heart, and maybe you do.
This is one of the few times I wish I was a teamster and be in a meeting/grievance with someone like you and have you define the term "directing the work force" in a contractual situation.

BTW,
In a legal battle, all electronic data sources can fall under subpoena and see which direction the contract was being bent.

 

[soberups]

The mere existence of the Telematics equipment on the car does not in itself constitute "oversupervision." Its UPS's truck and they can wire it up with whatever sensors they want to.

The oversupervision starts when the company misuses the data gathered and starts questioning the driver over every single 90-second delay or 2-minute discrepancy in reported break or lunch time.

The ONLY answer a driver should ever give when questioned in such a manner is..."I dont recall".

By trying to "fill in the blanks" or speculate on what might have happened for 2 minutes on the previous day, the driver is exposing himself to being accused of dishonesty if he inadvertantly gives an incorrect answer.

If the company actually has you on camera committing theft of time....you are going to be fired no matter what you say. If they dont have you on camera...then they are on a fishing expedition when they ask the questions and they are just trying to get you to incriminate yourself. Dont help them.

 

[thelus]

I would think that the opposite is true. They would know that you are doing your job as directed. If they have you on GPS then they can tell you are correctly following your route and stopping where you are supposed to. Now if you do it with your bulkhead door open or your seatbelt off, then I could understand the discipline. We are already plugging in some of our cars and from an Auto perspective it is working well to detect problems with the cars.

It's more than seat-belts and bulk head doors. I love being called into the office for the amount of backs I have totaling 5 back the whole night all into high volume dock stops. Or them using telematics for virtual time study's and bickering about how I'm an hour over my time when I'm doing the best i can and them not actually viewing how I'm working. You actually think they just use telematics for safety issues?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I see a disturbing trend in Red's posts in this thread and that is a lack of integrity. Telling your drivers to "take the 5th" is a cop out. If they screwed up, man up and tell the truth.

Sober, your response surprised me.

 

[705red]

I see a disturbing trend in Red's posts in this thread and that is a lack of integrity. Telling your drivers to "take the 5th" is a cop out. If they screwed up, man up and tell the truth.

Sober, your response surprised me.

I will take that as a complaiment coming from you! I do know what time lunch is! Who says they screwed up? A sup with a computer generated report? Why should someone have to answer for something that cannot be used to discipline them? Once they answer and teh answer is not what the sup wanted now the discipline game starts.

Not everyone lives in fairy upstateland. We are in the real world, big cities where management has to account for theij job and BS terminations haoppen all the time.

put me on ignore! lol

 

[soberups]

I see a disturbing trend in Red's posts in this thread and that is a lack of integrity. Telling your drivers to "take the 5th" is a cop out. If they screwed up, man up and tell the truth.

Sober, your response surprised me.

Why?

As a driver, what do I have to gain by trying to speculate as to what might have occured between, say, 1:54 and 1:56 yesterday afternoon?

If you think I'm stealing time, then get your ass out from behind the desk, grab your camera, and come on out and follow me.

If all you want to do is stay behind that desk and micromanage every moment of my entire 10 hour day based upon nothing Telematics reports then go ahead...but dont expect me to actively participate in your process.

Whem questioned by management, it always best to assume that they already know the answers to some of the questions they are asking, and that they are trying to catch you in some sort of lie. Why help them?

 

[deleted9]

705 is not part of the master agreement. We still have language that does not allow discipline from the use of technology. Comsider your self enlighntened.

By not being part of the master do you mean that there is local supplement language that supersedes the national ????

Also, if it's not in there now you can be assured it is on it's way...

 

[705red]

By not being part of the master do you mean that there is local supplement language that supersedes the national ????

Also, if it's not in there now you can be assured it is on it's way...

We negotiate seperate form the National in all aspects, contracts, panels etc. The only thing that gets in to the contract is what we allow to be negotiated in to the contract. UPS wanted it this last contract and its not there. During the National contract we were told that the language would only be used for over the road feeder drivers to monitor mileage. Well we can see now that we were lied to then.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I will take that as a complaiment coming from you! I do know what time lunch is! Who says they screwed up? A sup with a computer generated report? Why should someone have to answer for something that cannot be used to discipline them? Once they answer and teh answer is not what the sup wanted now the discipline game starts.

Not everyone lives in fairy upstateland. We are in the real world, big cities where management has to account for theij job and BS terminations haoppen all the time.

put me on ignore! lol

I won't put you on ignore as I learn quite a bit from your posts and feel that you have a lot to offer here. This is why I put "in this thread" in bold letters. You are right in that we don't have a lot of the issues in my center that you and most of the others have; in fact, my boss just sent me an ODS asking if I wouldn't mind running off a misload for my area on my way home and he would adjust my time card accordingly. I told him no problem.

I guess I should have clarified my response. If it is a clear cut case where the driver is at fault than I think he should be upfront and honest. If it is a case where mgt is on a fishing expedition than I agree don't give them anything.

How are the pain pills?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Why?

As a driver, what do I have to gain by trying to speculate as to what might have occured between, say, 1:54 and 1:56 yesterday afternoon?

If you think I'm stealing time, then get your ass out from behind the desk, grab your camera, and come on out and follow me.

If all you want to do is stay behind that desk and micromanage every moment of my entire 10 hour day based upon nothing Telematics reports then go ahead...but dont expect me to actively participate in your process.

Whem questioned by management, it always best to assume that they already know the answers to some of the questions they are asking, and that they are trying to catch you in some sort of lie. Why help them?

All good points that I failed to consider before posting. My bad.

 

[705red]

How are the pain pills?

GGGRRREEEAAATTT, never had Ultram before.