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Is there anybody at the wheel at UPS that can pay attention to the real world?
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<blockquote data-quote="bluehdmc" data-source="post: 543083" data-attributes="member: 18471"><p>Pobre Carlos, </p><p>Did the union "piss" away 16,000 jobs or did Consolidated Freights management do an end run around the union? Sure they may be profitable but an end run is still and end run, not exactly on the up and up. </p><p>As far as the disparity of the distribution of wealth and the greatest contribution of it, what about the Wall Street theives and their multi-million dollar bonuses while their companies are asking for bailouts. What about presenting their proposed bonuses to the stockholders? I bet the shareholders would approve them just as quickly as they'd approve a union contract. Remember also many pension plans are shareholders, </p><p>Part of the problem is our me, me, me society. </p><p>I'm not advocating a welfare state, just not paying astronomical salaries to 1 or 2 people at the top and keeping the worker down. That's the sort of thing that got unions started in the first place, along with work place rules, seniority, SAFETY ISSUES, among others. </p><p>I've seen what non union employers do, fire people to hire new employees at a lesser wage. Why do you think there are laws against age discrimination? Because some congressman thought it was a good idea? Or maybe it was because companies would "let people go" who were approaching retirement age and may have collected a pension. This way they could hire someone younger, usually without health issues that an older employee has, for a lesser wage. That's why there are laws about vesting in pensions, age discrimination, etc. A lot of benefits were also either a resuld of unions, or an effort by employers to keep unions out. </p><p>I guess in a cold society, run by the "bottom line" businessman, we should get rid of all these drains on the companies resources. Hire "undocumented aliens", pay them as little as we can, fire them when they get sick, or old, or injured, (particularly because we can ignore safety issues, since they are too scared to complain). This way the management can put as much as they can in their pockets. </p><p>I did not mention the co-pilot as a women to bring gender into the issue, just pointing out that you were referring to him.</p><p>I don't believe organized labor is intent on "destroying" american business. In a sense your killing the goose that's laying the golden eggs. </p><p>Remember the 1st time Chrysler was bailed out, the unions went and made concessions, and then Chryslers management gave bonuses out to themselves and tried to cut the unions out. Although they had originally agreed not to give out bonuses before giving back to the unions. ( I don't recall all the details) Unions should trust management when dishonesty, distortion and lies are their normal negotiating tactics? And you refer to unions as "thugs"?</p><p>And foriegn governments have been known to "subsidize" their industries, weren't japanese manufactures accused of "dumping"? (selling items in the US below cost to undermine competition). </p><p>How is "organized labor a burden on our society"? Organized labor is what built this country, the roads, the steel, the automobiles, the railroads, shipyards, etc. Yes many of these industries are gone, or shells of their former selves, but that cannot be blamed entirely on unions. Management, or mismanagement as it were is a great cause. Often looking for that bottom line, or to keep the stock price high. A previous poster mentioned GM selling GMAC, who'd they sell 51% to? Cerberus, the owners of Chrysler, (their competitor?) who then last fall wouldn't approve financing for people unless they had a 700 or better credit score, this help accelerate GM's downfall, Chrysler was already on the ropes. </p><p>Maybe car dealers are all hurting now but this policy of taking from the mechanics has been this way for 15+ years.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bluehdmc, post: 543083, member: 18471"] Pobre Carlos, Did the union "piss" away 16,000 jobs or did Consolidated Freights management do an end run around the union? Sure they may be profitable but an end run is still and end run, not exactly on the up and up. As far as the disparity of the distribution of wealth and the greatest contribution of it, what about the Wall Street theives and their multi-million dollar bonuses while their companies are asking for bailouts. What about presenting their proposed bonuses to the stockholders? I bet the shareholders would approve them just as quickly as they'd approve a union contract. Remember also many pension plans are shareholders, Part of the problem is our me, me, me society. I'm not advocating a welfare state, just not paying astronomical salaries to 1 or 2 people at the top and keeping the worker down. That's the sort of thing that got unions started in the first place, along with work place rules, seniority, SAFETY ISSUES, among others. I've seen what non union employers do, fire people to hire new employees at a lesser wage. Why do you think there are laws against age discrimination? Because some congressman thought it was a good idea? Or maybe it was because companies would "let people go" who were approaching retirement age and may have collected a pension. This way they could hire someone younger, usually without health issues that an older employee has, for a lesser wage. That's why there are laws about vesting in pensions, age discrimination, etc. A lot of benefits were also either a resuld of unions, or an effort by employers to keep unions out. I guess in a cold society, run by the "bottom line" businessman, we should get rid of all these drains on the companies resources. Hire "undocumented aliens", pay them as little as we can, fire them when they get sick, or old, or injured, (particularly because we can ignore safety issues, since they are too scared to complain). This way the management can put as much as they can in their pockets. I did not mention the co-pilot as a women to bring gender into the issue, just pointing out that you were referring to him. I don't believe organized labor is intent on "destroying" american business. In a sense your killing the goose that's laying the golden eggs. Remember the 1st time Chrysler was bailed out, the unions went and made concessions, and then Chryslers management gave bonuses out to themselves and tried to cut the unions out. Although they had originally agreed not to give out bonuses before giving back to the unions. ( I don't recall all the details) Unions should trust management when dishonesty, distortion and lies are their normal negotiating tactics? And you refer to unions as "thugs"? And foriegn governments have been known to "subsidize" their industries, weren't japanese manufactures accused of "dumping"? (selling items in the US below cost to undermine competition). How is "organized labor a burden on our society"? Organized labor is what built this country, the roads, the steel, the automobiles, the railroads, shipyards, etc. Yes many of these industries are gone, or shells of their former selves, but that cannot be blamed entirely on unions. Management, or mismanagement as it were is a great cause. Often looking for that bottom line, or to keep the stock price high. A previous poster mentioned GM selling GMAC, who'd they sell 51% to? Cerberus, the owners of Chrysler, (their competitor?) who then last fall wouldn't approve financing for people unless they had a 700 or better credit score, this help accelerate GM's downfall, Chrysler was already on the ropes. Maybe car dealers are all hurting now but this policy of taking from the mechanics has been this way for 15+ years. [/QUOTE]
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