Jobless rate reaches 9.8% in September

island1fox

Well-Known Member
:wink2:To the "Other side"
I will also give you a few "clues"
Our economic problems did not start with W -very short sighted vision of our economy.
The major problem we have --call it generation x and y or call it just plain old bottom feeders.
In 1964 Johnson's Great society was supposed to end the war on poverty ---as give away programs and welfare grew ---we drifted into the CRI -the community reinvestment act under the great Jimmy Carter --provide housing to people who could not afford it ---Lets jump over the great Reagan recovery years and focus on Wild Bill Clinton --Deregulation you say --Fannie and Freddie were allowed to get out of control ----Obama as a community organizer and an attorney --attached to that honest group ACORN ---sued City Bank for not having enough MINORITY mortages --Lawsuit settled --Banks forced to have no or low down payments and provide "risky" loans.
During Bush administration ---Housing bubble identified years before it broke --Democrats in control led by Dodd and Obama blocked up or down vote to reign in Fannie and Freddie.
Of course Dodd was getting his own "sweetheart" deals while Obama was preparing with contributions from Fannie and Freddie and support from Acorn to become President.
The risky loans --so called backed up by the gov --then fell into the greed of Wall street with the "bundling and selling " that crashed not only our economy --but much of the world's. It is sad that you seem so blinded by your hatred against the right to truly take a step back and look at the facts.
Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Maxime Waters, Congressman Meeks and many members of the Black caucaus blocked any action against Fannie and Freddy. Raines their dishonest CEO walked away with Millions !
I have to laugh when Obama who directly played an active part in this disaster in the late eighties and early ninties ---claims over and over that he inherited this from Bush !! Facts are facts --but you can drink Kool aid and believe what you want .:dissapointed:
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Yes, Brett, you and a million others, to make UPS shares worthless.

You don't quite get it. Taxes are not the sole reason I have chosen not to sell my UPS stock. Capital gains taxes are simply a barrier in the market, not a supporter of the market. More people would invest if capital gains taxes were 0. More investment means more jobs. More jobs equals more income, more income equals more tax revenue for the government. This is not rocket science, but somehow I am willing to bet you will not get my point.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
You don't quite get it. Taxes are not the sole reason I have chosen not to sell my UPS stock. Capital gains taxes are simply a barrier in the market, not a supporter of the market. More people would invest if capital gains taxes were 0. More investment means more jobs. More jobs equals more income, more income equals more tax revenue for the government. This is not rocket science, but somehow I am willing to bet you will not get my point.

No, I don't get your point. You already admitted you would sell UPS Shares if it wasn't for the tax burden.

You think you're the only one that won't sell ?
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Lower profit outlook, no revenue growth, accounting scandals. That is what keeps a stock down anyway.

You forgot the major factor :
People taking profits and cashing out.
Happens atleast weekly !

If everyone just bought and held... whole differnet story.

But, you even wanna go further, and let these profit takers even earn more !

I got 40K invested in private stocks and mutual funds. Sure, for me it would be awesome, but I don't think that way. I need to think of the nation , the whole.
Not , like a republican american as an individual.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
You forgot the major factor :
People taking profits and cashing out.
Happens atleast weekly !

If everyone just bought and held... whole differnet story.

But, you even wanna go further, and let these profit takers even earn more !


If everybody just bought and held nobody would make money. Only sellers make money.

OK, lets talk Apple for instance, you will see profit taking every so often. The stock will go down. But it will creep right back up, why? Because they consistantly under state their projections and outperform.

The ultimate value of the stock is still there at 26 times forward earnings. As they raise estimates so will the stock price.

If you want to talk about a stock like AIG. Well, if you get profit takers in that one you may never see $40 agian (or a split adjusted $2.00)
 

klein

Für Meno :)
If everybody just bought and held nobody would make money. Only sellers make money.

OK, lets talk Apple for instance, you will see profit taking every so often. The stock will go down. But it will creep right back up, why? Because they consistantly under state their projections and outperform.

The ultimate value of the stock is still there at 26 times forward earnings. As they raise estimates so will the stock price.

If you want to talk about a stock like AIG. Well, if you get profit takers in that one you may never see $40 agian (or a split adjusted $2.00)

ok, you got me, lets all become daytraders. As soon as we hit $200 profit , lets cash out. (tax free).

But, who pays for this all ?

You and I, would be short selling in a minute.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
ok, you got me, lets all become daytraders. As soon as we hit $200 profit , lets cash out. (tax free).

But, who pays for this all ?

You and I, would be short selling in a minute.


It's called a stimulus that would support all markets. Not just housing. It would stimulate growth across the board without producing a debt burden on the government. It would not bring down the stock market, in fact it may discourage selling in December. (people taking losses to deduct from that years gains)
 

klein

Für Meno :)
It's called a stimulus that would support all markets. Not just housing. It would stimulate growth across the board without producing a debt burden on the government. It would not bring down the stock market, in fact it may discourage selling in December. (people taking losses to deduct from that years gains)

Holy crap, we are talking tax free here ! What deductions ?
(if you had it your way) !

Or you mean, not to be implemented until Jan 1st, and then the big cash out ?

I will cash out mine to be honest. Tax free, why not ?
Maybe you might hold on to yours and even buy more.
I'll take the money and run.
 

outamyway

Well-Known Member
We are awfullly close to that 10% mark so lets raise taxes on the people who can use that capital to create growth. How about if we stop proping up certain markets like housing and auto. And help all markets by eliminating the capital gains tax.

Funny you should mention taxes.

A VAT tax is being talked about again.


Oh, I didn't read the article but did it happen to mention the few hundred thousand people that fell of the map?

The CPS brought in some pretty grimm data. As we know once you go from looking to no longer looking, you are no longer counted as unemployed(these are non benefit receiving people).

Here's the link from thee source:
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
 
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outamyway

Well-Known Member
Nonfarm payroll employment continued to decline in September
(-263,000), and the unemployment rate (9.8 percent) continued to trend up, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The largest job losses were in construction, manufacturing, retail trade, and government.

Household Survey Data

Since the start of the recession in December 2007, the number of unemployed persons has increased by 7.6 million to 15.1 million, and the unemployment rate has doubled to 9.8 percent. (See table A-1.)

Unemployment rates for the major worker groups--adult men (10.3 percent),
adult women (7.8 percent), teenagers (25.9 percent), whites (9.0 percent), blacks (15.4 percent), and Hispanics (12.7 percent)--showed little change in September. The unemployment rate for Asians was 7.4 percent, not seasonally adjusted. The rates for all major worker groups are much higher than at the start of the recession. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

Among the unemployed, the number of job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs rose by 603,000 to 10.4 million in September. The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks and over) rose by 450,000 to 5.4 million. In September, 35.6 percent of unemployed persons were jobless for 27 weeks or more. (See tables A-8 and A-9.)

The civilian labor force participation rate declined by 0.3 percentage point
in September to 65.2 percent. The employment-population ratio, at 58.8 percent, also declined over the month and has decreased by 3.9 percentage points since the recession began in December 2007. (See table A-1.)

In September, the number of persons working part time for economic reasons (sometimes referred to as involuntary part-time workers) was little changed at 9.2 million. The number of such workers rose sharply throughout most of the fall and winter but has been little changed since March. (See table A-5.)

About 2.2 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force in
September, an increase of 615,000 from a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally adjusted.) These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey. (See table A-13.)

Among the marginally attached, there were 706,000 discouraged workers in September, up by 239,000 from a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally adjusted.) Discouraged workers are persons not currently looking for work because they believe no jobs are available for them. The other 1.5 million persons marginally attached to the labor force in September had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey for reasons such as school attendance or family responsibilities.

Establishment Survey Data

Total nonfarm payroll employment declined by 263,000 in September. From May through September, job losses averaged 307,000 per month, compared with losses averaging 645,000 per month from November 2008 to April. Since the start of the recession in December 2007, payroll employment has fallen by 7.2 million. (See table B-1.)

In September, construction employment declined by 64,000. Monthly job losses averaged 66,000 from May through September, compared with an average of 117,000 per month from November to April. September job cuts were concentrated in the industry's nonresidential components (-39,000) and in heavy construction (-12,000). Since December 2007, employment in construction has fallen by 1.5 million.

Employment in manufacturing fell by 51,000 in September. Over the past 3
months, job losses have averaged 53,000 per month, compared with an average monthly loss of 161,000 from October to June. Employment in manufacturing has contracted by 2.1 million since the onset of the recession.

In the service-providing sector, the number of jobs in retail trade fell by
39,000 in September. From April through September, retail employment has fallen by an average of 29,000 per month, compared with an average monthly loss of 68,000 for the prior 6-month period.

Government employment was down by 53,000 in September, with the largest decline occurring in the non-education component of local government (-24,000).

Employment in health care continued to increase in September (19,000), with the largest gain occurring in ambulatory health care services (15,000). Health care has added 559,000 jobs since the beginning of the recession, although the average monthly job gain thus far in 2009 (22,000) is down from the average monthly gain during 2008 (30,000).

Employment in transportation and warehousing continued to trend down in
September. The number of jobs in financial activities, professional and
business services, leisure and hospitality, and information showed little
or no change over the month.

In September, the average workweek for production and nonsupervisory workers on private nonfarm payrolls edged down by 0.1 hour to 33.0 hours. Both the manufacturing workweek and factory overtime decreased by 0.1 hour over the month, to 39.8 and 2.8 hours, respectively. (See table B-2.)

In September, average hourly earnings of production and nonsupervisory
workers on private nonfarm payrolls edged up by 1 cent, or 0.1 percent, to $18.67. Over the past 12 months, average hourly earnings have risen by 2.5 percent, while average weekly earnings have risen by only 0.7 percent due to declines in the average workweek. (See table B-3.)

The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for July was revised from
-276,000 to -304,000, and the change for August was revised from -216,000 to -201,000.

_____________
The Employment Situation for October is scheduled to be released on
Friday, November 6, 2009, at 8:30 a.m. (EST).


 

1989

Well-Known Member
Holy crap, we are talking tax free here ! What deductions ?
(if you had it your way) !

Or you mean, not to be implemented until Jan 1st, and then the big cash out ?

I will cash out mine to be honest. Tax free, why not ?
Maybe you might hold on to yours and even buy more.
I'll take the money and run.


I sell despite the tax consequences. Only sellers make money. All I am saying is my cap gains tax would have been put back into the economy some how.

I am a seller now. We don't have a plan to add jobs. We must have an incentive to add jobs not an incentive to cut jobs as we do now. Some economists see 12-15% unemployment in 2010. Companies can't just beat on their bottom line anymore, they have to beat on the top line now. Cost cutting can't last forever. I bet we see another 100-150 point dip in the S&P. Even more if Obama starts talking armageddon again.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
I sell despite the tax consequences. Only sellers make money. All I am saying is my cap gains tax would have been put back into the economy some how.

I am a seller now. We don't have a plan to add jobs. We must have an incentive to add jobs not an incentive to cut jobs as we do now. Some economists see 12-15% unemployment in 2010. Companies can't just beat on their bottom line anymore, they have to beat on the top line now. Cost cutting can't last forever. I bet we see another 100-150 point dip in the S&P. Even more if Obama starts talking armageddon again.

Nobody really has a plan to add jobs. Not even up north (here waiting for oil and the USA to get back up)- good luck with that.

Obama has it right... lets start with new technoligy... the green one.
Build electric cars, solar cells, wind mills, etc.

I can't think of nothing else, since everything else comes from China and Asia.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I have a question. It was suggested that investment is only taxed when sold. Aren't capital gains taxes paid every year, and at a rate far less than other income? I think that is what made capital investment firms so lucrative in the past few years. All of their income deemed as investment income and thus taxable only at the 15% level.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I have a question. It was suggested that investment is only taxed when sold. Aren't capital gains taxes paid every year, and at a rate far less than other income? I think that is what made capital investment firms so lucrative in the past few years. All of their income deemed as investment income and thus taxable only at the 15% level.


I think the discussion was limited to stocks. Capital gains tax is paid on stocks only when they are sold. Losses on the sale of stock are limited to $3K for tax purposes (losses exceeding $3K are carried over to the next tax year). Interest income is treated differently for tax purposes.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
Markets go up ---Markets go down --People sell ---People buy----Money moves ---investments grow ---business prospers ----unenployment goes down ----tax revenue goes up -----more people working ---more people spending ----more business opens ----more companies go public --more stock is purchased ---more stock is sold ---WHEN the government puts its greedy hand in the mix ----on the risks that YOU take ---they slow the entire process down -----there will be a huge sell off in the market prior to 2010 ---Our leader with all of his business acumen has announced capital gains will increase ----Watch what that will do to any recovery--People will sell to avoid additional tax --will not reinvest for same reason and will hold money in panic rather that spend.:wink2:It is not that hard to figure out!!
 
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