tourists24
Well-Known Member
C'mon libs. Please defend this guy. Wanna hear the "facts"...
Jonathon Gruber
- Thread starter tourists24
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tourists24
Well-Known Member
Look it up..., if you follow politics you won't need a link. Involves Obamacare
tourists24
Well-Known Member
Sportello
Well-Known Member
Is this what you think is horrid?:
This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK? So it's written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said healthy people are going to pay in — you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money — it would not have passed. OK? Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to get the thing to pass. Look, I wish ... we could make it all transparent, but I'd rather have this law than not.
Seems about on the money to me. What do you find offensive?
This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK? So it's written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said healthy people are going to pay in — you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money — it would not have passed. OK? Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to get the thing to pass. Look, I wish ... we could make it all transparent, but I'd rather have this law than not.
Seems about on the money to me. What do you find offensive?
tourists24
Well-Known Member
Never mentioned anything about being offensive. Just looking for libs opinions on the matter. So this is spot on? This method to pass major legislation is ok?
Sportello
Well-Known Member
How do you think laws are passed? Sounds accurate and truthful to me. What more would you like me to opine on?
realbrown1
Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Admitting you purposely write a law that is vague and misleading just to get it passed is immoral.
If you can't see that, no wonder you are a troll.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Can't speak for liberals, but I will say this method to pass legislation has been accepted or ignored for a long time. Trying to say this is only a liberal tactic is ignoring the reality of our political system.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Gruber is a professor of economics at MIT. He got his Phd from Harvard in 1992' with his thesis entitled, "Changes in the Structure of Employer-Provider Health Insurance." He is currently a research associate at National Bureau of Economic Research and from 2003'-2006' he served as a key architect of Massachusetts health care reform otherwise known as RomneyCare.
So you still won't to argue that in 2012' election when it came to healthcare that there was any difference between the 2 choices given the voting public?
So you still won't to argue that in 2012' election when it came to healthcare that there was any difference between the 2 choices given the voting public?
Nimnim
The Nim
The only argument I'll make on healthcare in regards to the 2012 election and Romneycare and Obamacare is that Romneycare was just for Massachusetts and as such is a different beast. What may work in a state might work for the country, but a state is able to mandate these things without the Constitution that governs what the government can do upon the country.
Romney is completely shot in the foot if he wants to try running for President again with this out now though. Obamacare is still not popular with a vast majority of the public.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
You have a point Nimnim but why are republicans not owning Gruber in the sense that he's connected to them via their 2012' nominee and on the flipside why aren't democrats also being upfront and making this information on Gruber known as well? Republicans don't won't to be seen as the real father of our new healthcare law and democrats don't want the masses to understand that they are so out of ideas as to only be able to take theirs from the republicans? Don't freak out dems, repubs steal from you guys too. The folks in Washington are not that bright because if they were, billions of dollars wouldn't be needed to sell these clowns to the public.
Once again my argument that the 2 parties are just 2 wings from the same bird of prey. The repubs want to invade your bedroom and play morality monitor and the dems want to invade the rest of the house so they can play policeman to the rest of your life. Between the 2, outside of your home, both have screwed up the rest of our lives royally and equally I might add.
You can make the argument that RomneyCare is a State level program and that is true but it is equally true that RomneyCare was a huge influence and factor on the ACA otherwise known as ObamaCare and one of the major connections between the 2 is Gruber himself. Even Romney's healthcare ideas were never far removed from what we got and now with Gruber we know why that is so.
Gruber's open contempt for the masses I actually find honest and refreshing because that is exactly what they think of us regardless of which side the political isle is running the show. Does it ever dawn on anyone why any politician tells his audience on the campaign trail one thing and then does the exact opposite once elected? Gruber told us the truth, we are stupid and that is exactly how they see us. Hell, we should give the guy a damn medal as far as I'm concerned.
Even if republicans maintain their majority in the Congress and then take the WH in 2016', I predict ObamaCare won't get repealed, it will get modified and rebranded under a different name just so the gullible think it's gone. And the sad part? It will work like a charm and they know it because they've done it a 1000 times before. Gruber was 100% right, the masses in this country aren't stupid, we're friend'ing idiots and the very gov't we have is absolute proof of it.
Once again my argument that the 2 parties are just 2 wings from the same bird of prey. The repubs want to invade your bedroom and play morality monitor and the dems want to invade the rest of the house so they can play policeman to the rest of your life. Between the 2, outside of your home, both have screwed up the rest of our lives royally and equally I might add.
You can make the argument that RomneyCare is a State level program and that is true but it is equally true that RomneyCare was a huge influence and factor on the ACA otherwise known as ObamaCare and one of the major connections between the 2 is Gruber himself. Even Romney's healthcare ideas were never far removed from what we got and now with Gruber we know why that is so.
Gruber's open contempt for the masses I actually find honest and refreshing because that is exactly what they think of us regardless of which side the political isle is running the show. Does it ever dawn on anyone why any politician tells his audience on the campaign trail one thing and then does the exact opposite once elected? Gruber told us the truth, we are stupid and that is exactly how they see us. Hell, we should give the guy a damn medal as far as I'm concerned.
Even if republicans maintain their majority in the Congress and then take the WH in 2016', I predict ObamaCare won't get repealed, it will get modified and rebranded under a different name just so the gullible think it's gone. And the sad part? It will work like a charm and they know it because they've done it a 1000 times before. Gruber was 100% right, the masses in this country aren't stupid, we're friend'ing idiots and the very gov't we have is absolute proof of it.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
He thinks most Americans are stupid. I agree.
moreluck
golden ticket member
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
That's why I don't argue with you.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Or anyone else on here because we are probably 99% Americans and all stupid !!
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
I agree with you completely!! You're a 99%er all the way.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Wow, he sounds really unqualified compared to his critics. Notice how his assistance with RomneyCare wasn't mentioned at all by the Right Wing Media. Wonder why? Mitt in 2016!!!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I didn't see your side of the isle going to much lengths to bring it out either. Not hard to find when you look but I guess it served a purpose to not make much of it either.
If one were really serious, seems to me the right course would be to hang that like a millstone around someone's political neck but then to do that would show who really came up with the ACA in the first place.
I was wondering who would put on the dancing shoes and start doing the two step first. Once again there's no effort to try and disappoint me!
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