Ketter Audit

my2cents

Well-Known Member
These checklists should be insulting and degrading to anyone who has a shred of common sense. Personally, I find being forced to memorize how to pick up a box offensive, for example. I can't recall at any time of my life being forced to memorize anything so stupid. UPS is evolving into a nanny state. In addition to the forced memorization of the obvious, lame safety signs have been popping up all over our center. The worst is the sign in the restroom telling me how to wash my hands. Why not force everyone to memorize that? After all, it's public health. For me, this gross overemphasis of the obvious is a huge morale killer. Stuff like this makes going into work a miserable experience.
 
yall crack me up......you mean that even thou the company is paying you probally overtime to learn these things you still wanna grip and complain about it!!! hehe guess i gotta change my name , cause most of you all are the real clowns, and if you were really honest with yourself youll admit that some of these rules help in everyday life.... but im sure the majority will say no.... :whiteflag: i give up ...
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
yall crack me up......you mean that even thou the company is paying you probally overtime to learn these things you still wanna grip and complain about it!!! hehe guess i gotta change my name , cause most of you all are the real clowns, and if you were really honest with yourself youll admit that some of these rules help in everyday life.... but im sure the majority will say no.... :whiteflag: i give up ...

Overtime? We are expected to learn them on OUR time; at home. Where did you get this info? Maybe you should do a little research before you come on here and try to make someone look stupid, when in fact, you just did it to yourself.
 

Jim Kemp

Well-Known Member
yall crack me up......you mean that even thou the company is paying you probally overtime to learn these things you still wanna grip and complain about it!!! hehe guess i gotta change my name , cause most of you all are the real clowns, and if you were really honest with yourself youll admit that some of these rules help in everyday life.... but im sure the majority will say no.... :whiteflag: i give up ...

Brown_clown; you miss the entire point of this thread.
We were tlod to get the info and learn it at home.
And also the main point is that just because you can repeat the poems dosen't mean you are safe. Our "SAfety" people have more accidents and injuries than anyone else in our center.
 

Griff

Well-Known Member
yall crack me up......you mean that even thou the company is paying you probally overtime to learn these things you still wanna grip and complain about it!!! hehe guess i gotta change my name , cause most of you all are the real clowns, and if you were really honest with yourself youll admit that some of these rules help in everyday life.... but im sure the majority will say no.... :whiteflag: i give up ...

Eskew, I know that you're no longer the CEO and have some free time on your hands, but can't you at least hire a secretary to type posts for you? Like a poster said a few posts above yours, the majority of these "safety methods" are insulting to anyone with an IQ above 50. They are nothing more than simple common sense and it's blatantly obvious that UPS thinks it's the cheapest way to get results. In operations (speaking about our hub) there is rarely something tangible that is done for the benefit of safety.
 

tieguy

Banned
Eskew, I know that you're no longer the CEO and have some free time on your hands, but can't you at least hire a secretary to type posts for you? Like a poster said a few posts above yours, the majority of these "safety methods" are insulting to anyone with an IQ above 50.

let me know which ones you find insulting. Since your obviously one of these superior intellects could you list the ten point commentary with a detailed explanation of each?
 

upsdude

Well-Known Member
Nice job on the 34 years. Are you the rule or the exception? How do you train those that aren't as gifted as you are on defensive driving?

Most posts here still tend to lose focus and try to turn this thread into a B session on safety.

your points you make are that ups does not do enough for safety. But then as Griff did you try to reject the training they provide you that can help you drive defensively and can help you work more safely.


The folks in my center that are getting involved in accidents and injuries are the same folks that can recite “The stuff” word for word. Without exception they can say it all during a post injury/accident investigation. Guys like myself (old school) that aren’t very good at memorizing “The stuff” go day after day without accidents or injuries. I haven’t a clue if this is the norm everywhere else but in my world it’s fact. Another fact is that management has limited Safety Committee attendance to those with little experience in the job. Not one member has more than 3 years driving. I’ve offered on several occasions to serve, can’t, I’d be over 950. That attitude shows me the company has little interest in real solutions. BTW, I’m known to management as a guy that goes out and gets it done every day without any issues. So I’m not what they would refer to as a bad apple.

Maybe the company would be better served if they had the new guys with perfect memory spend a day on car with me. I can show them that time is never ever made up behind the wheel. Time is made up when the car is parked. You can’t deliver packages and drive at the same time, it’s one or the other. I’ll use “Scan Steering Wheels” as an example. I was doing that way before it was cool, my dad taught me (he never worked for UPS). But you had better be “Scanning Bumpers” as well. Why? That’s where most small children are likely to be standing or sitting on their bike. I could go on.

Bottom line, if UPS wants to fire/discipline me for a poor memory, so be it. I guess they can replace me with someone that is very likely to go out and cost them thousands of dollars in a Tier 3 accident. But hey, they could recite “The Stuff”.


BTW Tie, I wish I worked for you, I suspect you would be open to suggestions. Or you would at least say why we couldn't. More than I can say about my current management.
 

tieguy

Banned
Maybe the company would be better served if they had the new guys with perfect memory spend a day on car with me. I’ll use “Scan Steering Wheels” as an example. I was doing that way before it was cool, my dad taught me (he never worked for UPS). But you had better be “Scanning Bumpers” as well. Why? That’s where most small children are likely to be standing or sitting on their bike. I could go on.

Guess what you just explained one of the ten and gave a credible explanation of what you do. I don't think it has to be a word for word but you have to know and be able to explain it. Your case would be interesting one to review on a ketter audit. Well yea he missed one but hes never had an accident in 34 years.:happy-very:

BTW Tie, I wish I worked for you, I suspect you would be open to suggestions. Or you would at least say why we couldn't. More than I can say about my current management.

easy big boy I have a repuation as management nazi I'm trying to maintain here.:happy-very:
 

AlaskaMike

Active Member
DTS trained have to memorize much more complex wording for these items word for word.

You guys are being asked to memorize something that is much easier to absorb.

why are you being asked to memorize it? Does knowing you should put your traffic side directional, check your traffic side flat and convex mirrors and looking over your traffic side shoulder to check your blind spot help you avoid accidents? Sure it does

Does knowing how to approach an intersection help you avoid a serious intersection accident? Sure it does

Does knowing and understanding the 8 keys to lifiting and lowering a package help you work safer. Sure does.

This is not going away. Knowing how to do these things safely can definitely help you. Why fight it?
All for learning it. But my contract says time spent in training is paid time. I wouldn't want to study it at home and then get a warning letter for working off the clock....
 

tieguy

Banned
All for learning it. But my contract says time spent in training is paid time. I wouldn't want to study it at home and then get a warning letter for working off the clock....

I think the rebuttal on that is going to be that you were trained on it. In orientation , on rides, in pcms etc.
 

HazMatMan

Well-Known Member
We were told yesterday that if we failed the ketter audit we would be terminated. What a load of BS.
I am to old to learn their little poems.

Did they add failing the Keter audit into the contract as one of the cardinal sins (drinking and stealing the others) as for grounds for immediate discharge???
 

AlaskaMike

Active Member
I think the rebuttal on that is going to be that you were trained on it. In orientation , on rides, in pcms etc.

Orientation was 17 years ago and it covered the 5 seeing habits in their short form. Rides are for observation. A driver can't seriously be expected to drive and memorize the 10 point commentary or the 8 complete rules of backing at the same time. We are alloted 3 minutes for PCM's. It's difficult to learn anything, let alone memorize verbatim poorly composed lists, in three minute intervals. Who here can memorize anything in less than 15 minutes a week?
 

tieguy

Banned
Orientation was 17 years ago and it covered the 5 seeing habits in their short form. Rides are for observation. A driver can't seriously be expected to drive and memorize the 10 point commentary or the 8 complete rules of backing at the same time. We are alloted 3 minutes for PCM's. It's difficult to learn anything, let alone memorize verbatim poorly composed lists, in three minute intervals. Who here can memorize anything in less than 15 minutes a week?

A driver can do anything a driver wants to do. If you arrived at work and were given a 100 dollar bill for reciting those items then you would sing like a canary. :happy-very:

All of this is good dialogue about the ills of safety training at ups but in the end as other posters have said you will be required to know the material.

 

tieguy

Banned
On my first day of pkg there was nothing of the driving habits discussed,it was all about getting the packages off. On my first day of feeder the three safe driving points I was given were, 1) Don`t hurt yourself or anyone else,2) Don`t wreck the equipment,3) Pull the right trailer.

So far,so good.

NO Space and Visibility rides?
 

upsgrunt

Well-Known Member
A driver can do anything a driver wants to do. If you arrived at work and were given a 100 dollar bill for reciting those items then you would sing like a canary. :happy-very:

All of this is good dialogue about the ills of safety training at ups but in the end as other posters have said you will be required to know the material.


That's exactly what I'm saying Tie- 3 hours work to memorize is about $100. (and I do agree with most of what you are saying)
 

HazMatMan

Well-Known Member
A driver can do anything a driver wants to do. If you arrived at work and were given a 100 dollar bill for reciting those items then you would sing like a canary. :happy-very:

All of this is good dialogue about the ills of safety training at ups but in the end as other posters have said you will be required to know the material.

That's exactly what I'm saying Tie- 3 hours work to memorize is about $100. (and I do agree with most of what you are saying)

Money talks and bull$h*t walks!!
 
i feel so stoopid,:angry:... you say the company wants you to learn this at home? humm are you scared of the training button on the ivis? sometimes i wish managment could sometimes just escort these guys with the ole im not doing it attidude to there next job... you want fries with that...... think about it for a minute and be honest if you wasnt working for ups, what would you be doing? what would your lifestyle be?ill go out on a limb here and assume its most of the whinners have been here awhile and actually forgotten what most people have to do for half the money. again i give up on you guys:whiteflag:.....ill close with when your driving to a exchange point if your feeder, or to your next stop if you deliver and see a guy working in a ditch standing in mud to his ankles.. be thankful :happy-very:
 

LKLND3380

Well-Known Member
All for learning it. But my contract says time spent in training is paid time. I wouldn't want to study it at home and then get a warning letter for working off the clock....

Code over to safety (Code 76?) go to the safety zone and log into a computer to study... Your center should have AS MANY HOURS AS NEEDED authorized by the DM for safety...:smart:
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
Code over to safety (Code 76?) go to the safety zone and log into a computer to study... Your center should have AS MANY HOURS AS NEEDED authorized by the DM for safety...:smart:

I've never heard of anything like that, as for earlier poster, we are not allowed to code out anything but lunch or break unless they tell us to, then they tell us how many minutes.
 
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