LABOR

[bbsam]

Ooh, upper case lettering. Nice touch Scam. Of course everybody knows that. My original argument with Upstate was simply that drivers (regardless of whatever outlet they work for) are worth more than $15 an hour.What's so unreasonable about $20? You and him really don't care if everyone else is underpaid as long as you got yours eh? Oh well so it goes off the rails. No big deal. We move on.

Ah. Really? Is that where we are? Even inside Express it's evident that those who "have there's" don't give a damn about newer couriers. Of course they soften it up with "having to take care of themselves.". I think it was hypo Hanna who wrote so eloquently about that not too long ago.

 

[hypo hanna]

According to the Washington Post $75 Billion was spent on food stamps alone in 2012. The major welfare programs plus Medicaid added up to $668 Billion. With all the programs for the poor it totals about a trillion a year. The safety net is great for helping people in hard times. But not as a lifestyle choice. There's a huge amount of fraud also with some of these programs because there's a huge amount of money. Eliminate fraud and waste and be smart about how the money is spent.

Yes more has been spent on food stamps because the need has increased. More people out of work or working at jobs that don't pay enough to feed their families have had to ask for assistance.
Now that trillion dollar number is just made up BS. Red meat for the gulliable tea party types. That was from a report by some in the GOP that redefined every possible program as welfare. Prior to this report, welfare was defined as TANF. temp assist to needy families. the gop wants to include Public works projects, pell grants and even their own pet project the Earned income tax credit and count it as welfare. If there were a trillion dollars flowing to the poor every year, the streets of those neighborhoods would really be crawling with brand new caddies instead of the ones found in Glenn Becks fevered imagination.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

$500 of free money or $300 for 40 hours of entry-level work, probably with a crappy schedule. I don't think you'll be urging him to pick up the spatula.

This is why more states are going to a "work share" form of unemployment wherein the state supplements your wages. It saves them money and puts more people back to work.

 

[vantexan]

Yes more has been spent on food stamps because the need has increased. More people out of work or working at jobs that don't pay enough to feed their families have had to ask for assistance.
Now that trillion dollar number is just made up BS. Red meat for the gulliable tea party types. That was from a report by some in the GOP that redefined every possible program as welfare. Prior to this report, welfare was defined as TANF. temp assist to needy families. the gop wants to include Public works projects, pell grants and even their own pet project the Earned income tax credit and count it as welfare. If there were a trillion dollars flowing to the poor every year, the streets of those neighborhoods would really be crawling with brand new caddies instead of the ones found in Glenn Becks fevered imagination.

No it wasn't a made up number. The government does spend close to a trillion dollars a year on all programs that benefit the poor. Food stamps alone are much more than what you said was spent on social welfare. And the government doesn't hand out a trillion in cash so why would the streets be crawling with Cadillacs(don't know why caddies would be there, golf lessons? )?

 

[vantexan]

He is right. People are getting poorer because of corporate welfare. When the corporations and the ultra wealthy get more and more tax cuts, that money has to be made up by higher taxes on the middle class in the form of higher fees and job losses to the government workforce. This has a ripple effect in that more people looking for work drives down wages. The poor face cuts in services and find it much harder to get assistance in the first place. We all suffer as our infrastructure crumbles without maintainance.

School districts dont get their revenue from property taxes alone. It varys from state to state but on average about 45% comes from local property taxes. The rest is from state taxes. Corporates taxes, sales taxes, other fees and lotteries. The federal gov contributes about 8%.
Corporations routinely ask for tax abatements from state governments, local governments and school districts. Usually with the threat that they will pull up stakes and move if they don't get them. Falsely claiming they can't operate without that tax break.

Job losses to the government workforce? You mustn't be talking about the Federal workforce as Obama has greatly expanded it, not to mention increased it's income. And let's get real about corporations. Go to any shopping district, large corporations are all around you. And they lease their buildings, the landlords pay the taxes. Now when a major manufacturing plant is about to be built, local and state governments roll out all kinds of incentives because they know the benefit to their community will more than offset the tax breaks. Puts people to work, who pay taxes. What's disconcerting is all the propaganda out there that makes people automatically think they are getting screwed when they hear the word corporation.

 

[MrFedEx]

Yes more has been spent on food stamps because the need has increased. More people out of work or working at jobs that don't pay enough to feed their families have had to ask for assistance.
Now that trillion dollar number is just made up BS. Red meat for the gulliable tea party types. That was from a report by some in the GOP that redefined every possible program as welfare. Prior to this report, welfare was defined as TANF. temp assist to needy families. the gop wants to include Public works projects, pell grants and even their own pet project the Earned income tax credit and count it as welfare. If there were a trillion dollars flowing to the poor every year, the streets of those neighborhoods would really be crawling with brand new caddies instead of the ones found in Glenn Becks fevered imagination.

Talking politics with van is like trying to "debate" Bill O'Reilly. The "facts", however twisted and wrong, are the FOX faux facts, and van hasn't stopped drinking their Kool-Aid.

Hey van, what are you doing for medical these days? And how is that paltry pension doing to support you? Are you going to the ER for government-subsidized treatment for your health issues" Real Americans want to know.

 

[vantexan]

Talking politics with van is like trying to "debate" Bill O'Reilly. The "facts", however twisted and wrong, are the FOX faux facts, and van hasn't stopped drinking their Kool-Aid.

Hey van, what are you doing for medical these days? And how is that paltry pension doing to support you? Are you going to the ER for government-subsidized treatment for your health issues" Real Americans want to know.

"Real" Americans aren't malcontents who believe they are owed a great living. I buy my meds in Mexico, and as soon as my pension kicks in will be heading south again. Not having medical is about as good as having a FedEx plan or Obamacare so not worried about it. Funny how you think all conservatives just regurgitate FOX News. And yet I hear the same knee jerk liberalism over and over here.

 

[MrFedEx]

"Real" Americans aren't malcontents who believe they are owed a great living. I buy my meds in Mexico, and as soon as my pension kicks in will be heading south again. Not having medical is about as good as having a FedEx plan or Obamacare so not worried about it. Funny how you think all conservatives just regurgitate FOX News. And yet I hear the same knee jerk liberalism over and over here.

Yeah, sure. That's what we do...not.

 

[vantexan]

Yeah, sure. That's what we do...not.

Well you showed me!

 

[hypo hanna]

.... Now when a major manufacturing plant is about to be built, local and state governments roll out all kinds of incentives because they know the benefit to their community will more than offset the tax breaks. Puts people to work, who pay taxes. What's disconcerting is all the propaganda out there that makes people automatically think they are getting screwed when they hear the word corporation.

And that would be great of the job (a) materialize in the numbers promised, they often do not. (B), the jobs created came anywhere close in value to the tax incentives these companies extort from local communities.
Verizon, one of the most profitable corporations conned the city of Lockport NY out of a package deal worth 611 million dollars for 200 jobs. That is a cost of 3 million per job. Those jobs would have paid 50 to 85K. If that money were invested at 5% it would twice the benefit. Turned out even that wasn't sweet enough for Verizon. They managed to con another town out of an even better deal so they loaded up their gypsy wagons and rolled off down the road.

 

[hypo hanna]

Job losses to the government workforce? You mustn't be talking about the Federal workforce as Obama has greatly expanded it, not to mention increased it's income. ....

I'm sure you find it convienant to have a boogie man like President Obama to blame but the facts are something you should look in to.
There was some major hiring of temporary workers for the 2010 census but overall, hiring of federal workers has slowed under this administration. A 37% decline from 2009 to 2012. Of those hires, 77% went to DOD, military or Homeland Security. All parts of the government openly supported by the right.
(Data compiled by the Partnership for Public Service).

 

[Serf]

Sounds like a good trade to me; 250 senior employees cut from the payroll and a psychological win over the union for a few million bucks in traffic tickets? Keep in mind that I'm speaking strictly from a business perspective; I'd hate to see 250 people lose their jobs, especially over 1 guy who allegedly can't follow company policy.

Agree, I'm not calling for 250 people to lose employment. But psychological victory over the Union is tremendous. Eventually the rah rah will die down and the politicians rally cry will fade and cops will be cops and that small threat of extra tickets will fade. And the big brown machine will roar.

 

[Serf]

Funny how you think all conservatives just regurgitate FOX News. And yet I hear the same knee jerk liberalism over and over here.

Funny. I must just be a Fox News parrot because I couldn't possibly feel this way on my own! I think conservatively and understand nobody owes me a living.

 

[vantexan]

I'm sure you find it convienant to have a boogie man like President Obama to blame but the facts are something you should look in to.
There was some major hiring of temporary workers for the 2010 census but overall, hiring of federal workers has slowed under this administration. A 37% decline from 2009 to 2012. Of those hires, 77% went to DOD, military or Homeland Security. All parts of the government openly supported by the right.
(Data compiled by the Partnership for Public Service).

You need to check again...a simple Google search of has Obama increased number of federal employees turns up that if you take away spike for census workers and don't count mail workers then federal employment is up 3.2%. Not only that but Washington D.C.'s household income has surged more than 23% under Obama as the nation's average has dropped more than 6%. Washington now has the highest household income of the 25 largest metro areas. Saw a stat several years ago of the thousands in his admin that now make $150k+ annually compared to a few dozen under Bush. The First Lady has a virtual entourage costing millions as compared to 1 or 2 employees for most First Ladies. It goes on and on. Not to mention the millions they spend on travel and parties. Bogeyman indeed.

 

[vantexan]

And that would be great of the job (a) materialize in the numbers promised, they often do not. (B), the jobs created came anywhere close in value to the tax incentives these companies extort from local communities.
Verizon, one of the most profitable corporations conned the city of Lockport NY out of a package deal worth 611 million dollars for 200 jobs. That is a cost of 3 million per job. Those jobs would have paid 50 to 85K. If that money were invested at 5% it would twice the benefit. Turned out even that wasn't sweet enough for Verizon. They managed to con another town out of an even better deal so they loaded up their gypsy wagons and rolled off down the road.

And you make that sound like the norm. Ask various cities in the South if the auto plants built there weren't a good deal for them.

 

[hypo hanna]

And you make that sound like the norm. Ask various cities in the South if the auto plants built there weren't a good deal for them.

It is the norm. In fact it is so commen that there is a publication called "Tax Incentives Alert" that has all of the details to help corporations fleece communities of every possible dime.

 

[hypo hanna]

You need to check again...a simple Google search of has Obama increased number of federal employees turns up that if you take away spike for census workers and don't count mail workers then federal employment is up 3.2%. .. Not only that but Washington D.C.'s household income has surged more than 23% under Obama as the nation's average has dropped more than 6%. Washington now has the highest household income of the 25 largest metro areas. Saw a stat several years ago of the thousands in his admin that now make $150k+ annually compared to a few dozen under Bush. The First Lady has a virtual entourage costing millions as compared to 1 or 2 employees for most First Ladies. It goes on and on. Not to mention the millions they spend on travel and parties. Bogeyman indeed.

A simple google search turns up more crackpot garbage then I care to read. I prefer quantifiable facts like these from https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...ables/total-government-employment-since-1962/

In 2000 before GWB took office total federal personnel was 4129, (in thousands). From 2001 to 2009 it went from 4129 to 4430. After Obama took office it went from 4430 down to 4312 in 2012.

Executive branch civilian numbers show the same trends.
2000 was 2639
2009 was 2774
2012 was 2697

 

[MrFedEx]

A simple google search turns up more crackpot garbage then I care to read. I prefer quantifiable facts like these from https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...ables/total-government-employment-since-1962/

In 2000 before GWB took office total federal personnel was 4129, (in thousands). From 2001 to 2009 it went from 4129 to 4430. After Obama took office it went from 4430 down to 4312 in 2012.

Executive branch civilian numbers show the same trends.
2000 was 2639
2009 was 2774
2012 was 2697

But Rush Limbaugh said so.

 

[vantexan]

It is the norm. In fact it is so commen that there is a publication called "Tax Incentives Alert" that has all of the details to help corporations fleece communities of every possible dime.

A simple google search turns up more crackpot garbage then I care to read. I prefer quantifiable facts like these from https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-ove...ables/total-government-employment-since-1962/

In 2000 before GWB took office total federal personnel was 4129, (in thousands). From 2001 to 2009 it went from 4129 to 4430. After Obama took office it went from 4430 down to 4312 in 2012.

Executive branch civilian numbers show the same trends.
2000 was 2639
2009 was 2774
2012 was 2697

And if you check the footnotes of that page it includes temporary workers(such as the huge spike in Census workers) and mail workers. Obama DID grow permanent employees and is paying considerably more. As Mark Twin said there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Called Rush and Sean to verify and they told me it's true!

 

[hypo hanna]

And if you check the footnotes of that page it includes temporary workers(such as the huge spike in Census workers) and mail workers. Obama DID grow permanent employees and is paying considerably more. As Mark Twin said there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Called Rush and Sean to verify and they told me

And if you check the footnotes of that page it includes temporary workers(such as the huge spike in Census workers) and mail workers. Obama DID grow permanent employees and is paying considerably more. As Mark Twin said there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Called Rush and Sean to verify and they told me it's true!

like a true tea party patriot. Never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.